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Set yourself apart

Ethan and the team at College Essay Guy made all of the difference in my applications. I strongly believe that the quality and substance of my essays are what helped me gain admittance to both Yale and Brown. I learned more about writing in his courses than I did in all of my previous schooling and I couldn't recommend his work more highly.

Date of experience : May 21, 2024

If I had missed the guidance of College…

If I had missed the guidance of College Essay Guy during my college application process, I can't imagine the turbulence I would have gone through. Their resources completely changed my perspective on college applications. I learned it's not so much about me, but more about what the admissions officers want to know about me. This mindset shift made a huge difference. College Essay Guy, you are amazing! Keep helping students out there navigate this daunting process. I am infinitely grateful for your support. You were an oasis in the desert of my college application journey, which I tackled from the other side of the planet. I'm writing this today as a college graduate, thanks to you.

Date of experience : May 14, 2024

Great Coaches

What stood out about the CEG college essay process the most was how they helped along every step of the way. My essay editor, Sarah Murphy, was amazing and was there to help me whenever I had any questions about anything related to the college process, no matter how simple or abstract the questions were. She made sure that I was comfortable with what I was writing, and her friendliness allowed me to be very open with her, up-leveling my essays. If you are looking for someone to look over your essays, I would definitely recommend College essay guy!

Date of experience : January 01, 2024

Great experience

College Essay Guy was super helpful in our application process. Not only the coaches have a lot of first hand experiences, it also helps me avoiding potential tensions with my son in the process lol. Sophia was our essay coach and she was bright and also super dedicated. She accommodated a super difficult schedule to help my son in his last push of finishing his essays. Can't ask for more. Separately, for the parallel "college list" coaching service, it is much more than what I expected. The coach not only helped building a college list, he actually provided very detailed instructions, with follow ups, to my son regarding all the steps he needs to take to complete the applications - activity lists, recommendation letters, etc. Overall, enjoyed working with CEG!

Date of experience : May 07, 2024

Seamless Process for College Essays

This is been a great experience and it was stressful initially but you guys made it so easy. I really thank you for all the services and making this process helpful. It was really seamless process.

Date of experience : May 08, 2024

Best program by far

My son’s coach showed exceptional patience, flexibility, responsiveness, and guidance throughout the entire application cycle. The process is highly structured and I appreciate the focus on keeping it between the student and coach. I think it’s best to keep parents out of the process in order to maintain the boundary and working dynamic between essay coach and student, as you intended. It really helped me put my faith in the coach without feeling I had to be involved. I was adjacent to the process which was better for everyone. My son’s essay topic was so unexpected and incredible in a way that could have only been derived from this extensive process. In addition, this program was more comprehensive and far more affordable than other resources. My son received admission to 16/18 schools including several full ride offers and Ivy League institutions. His writing improved so much and I even think it assisted in his selection as a Coca-Cola scholar. It made for some difficult decisions! Highly, highly recommend!

Date of experience : April 07, 2024

We were so fortunate to work with Ethan Sawyer, Susan, and Andy

We were so fortunate to work with College Essay Guy for my second and third child. I happened upon College Essay Guys work while we were prepping our oldest child for his applications and working with a different "prestigious" college prep company. What really stands out about College Essay Guy is the level of depth and authenticity that they are able to excavate out of your child. The process that College Essay Guy uses to help the student really understand and examine themselves and their own values is profound and rich in meaning far beyond the college application process. I felt that everyone working with my children actually cared about my child and wanted to help them further evolve and develop into even more meaningful adults. I was honestly blown away with the care and compassion of College Essay Guys entire team and thrilled to have them as role models for my children. They are the real deal and admissions officers can feel the difference in the essays. Yes, both of my kids got into either their first choice or second choice (but with surprise of a full academic scholarship!), but this process meant so much more than even the acceptance letter.

Date of experience : June 05, 2023

The CEG team helped my son reach his…

The CEG team helped my son reach his best performance without us managing the process, allowing him full ownership. He was admitted into the college of his choice. Money well spent!

Date of experience : November 10, 2023

Incredibly supportive and experienced team

I am immensely thankful to CEG for stepping in when my son found himself in a last-minute bind, realizing he needed external assistance. He felt completely stuck. When a friend suggested contacting CEG, which I did, Ethan responded promptly. He patiently listened to our concerns and efficiently guided us through the process. From that point on, things progressed swiftly. Jennifer worked diligently and patiently with my son. The highlight for me, as a mother, was the review process, where other advisers contributed their insights and recommendations. I couldn't have asked for more. My only regret is that I wish we had reached out to them earlier in the process to fully benefit from their expertise.

Date of experience : October 31, 2023

CEG is priceless…

CEG kept my son accountable with tasks to complete each week. The whole process was streamlined and professional. Helena helped with any questions and coach Natalie (so positive and encouraging) kept him on track and feeling able and accomplished. Thanks so much for considering.

Date of experience : March 21, 2024

CEG made the college essay writing…

CEG made the college essay writing process enjoyable and engaging. It was an opportunity to reflect on my values and my life and what I want admissions to know about me through my writing. I couldn’t recommend CEG more — not only will they lead you to formulate ideas for essays but they will also teach you things about yourself. Thank you so much, CEG!

Date of experience : September 01, 2023

Working with CEG was the best thing I…

Working with CEG was the best thing I could've done! Starting out as someone who had absolutely no idea what they wanted to write about or how to even write a college essay, CEG was able to provide me with the support to write an outstanding personal statement and supplementals, all of which I never could've written without such incredible support. This truly made such a significant impact on my college application process and I am so grateful for the CEG team for all of their help!

Date of experience : May 23, 2023

Awesome Experience!!!

It made a HUGE difference to have an expert provide guidance, accountability, and support. Melissa was Maggie's essay coach and she was awesome! Very prepared and timely. It made the whole process a lot less stressful and less overwhelming.

Date of experience : October 12, 2023

Best Experience Possible

We highly recommend College Essay Guy. Our son's counselor was able to get him to open up in a way he would not have with us, they helped keep him on a timeline and we were done before Thanksgiving and there were no parent-kid battles! The best part is that our son was accepted to his first choice school! The College Essay Guy team was fabulous.

Date of experience : November 15, 2023

Every session with our counselor and essay coach was a joy and inspiration

One the most helpful things about having my daughter work with the essay coach was being able to bounce ideas, brainstorm out loud, and also the incredible in-depth feedback Lola got on everything she wrote! Every session was a joy and inspiration and truly helped propelled Lola's writing to another level! Working with our college counselor was immensely helpful! She was so knowledgeable and answered so many questions with a huge smile! She was a vast ocean of resources and information that really helped us navigate some confusing aspects of the application process, timing, and the applications themselves.

Date of experience : November 22, 2023

Empathetic and highly effective

The process is excellent and the team fantastic. Our son worked with Cat and her ability to connect deeply with him and to help him think through and articulate his passions were central to his journey. In a word - awesome.

Date of experience : July 31, 2023

Amazing program, more than a college essay tutor

My son had a wonderful experience with CEG. He was a paired with a wonderful tutor who not only helped him find his voice and write beautiful, personal essays, but also helped him stay organized in the process. He is a busy kids with lots of extracurriculars and a fall sport so this was hugely helpful for fall of senior year. As a STEM focused student applying to tech and engineering schools, the writing component of the applications was the most intimidating for him. My son felt that he actually became a better writer in the process due to the one on one support and encouragement of his tutor, Harrison. The acceptance letters just keep coming! I highly, highly recommend this program.

Worth Every Penny But Intimidating

This course is amazing but very lengthy with a bunch of unnecessary information. Id prefer if you just went straight to the point and explained some parts of the essay on a dumber level. Other than that everything was perfect and this course will boost your acceptance chances through the roof!

Date of experience : March 24, 2020

The resources are great and very…

The resources are great and very helpful as a student looking for where to begin. The online class was a bit crowded which made it difficult for me to get my essay reviewed and wasn’t always the most helpful. Overall I think it is a great service thought there were definitely parts I liked better then others

Date of experience : March 30, 2020

Frustrating Experience

It's important to know that with the current payment structure, the flat rate is the same for 3 or 6 essays, regardless of when you start. For your best value, I would encourage signing up several months before their hard end date of 10/31. I paid in full in mid-July, with the promise my son could start right away, hoping he would get most of the work done before starting a packed senior year. While it took my son a couple weeks to get his intake forms done, several e-mail requests were required to get started with a coach, with no real work going until mid-August. The coach we got was pretty good, but despite my requests to keep it moving, dragged out the process with the other coaches reviewing the work so it wasn't done until the day the applications were due. Because of this, I wasn't able to review the essays myself before the first round were submitted. When I read them before the second round was due, I noticed a couple typos in the Common App essay. Given the cost and that this was supposed to be edited by 3 experts, I was greatly disappointed. I will say they definitely helped my son get his writing done and it was much better than it would have been otherwise, but will look to see what else is out there next time around.

Date of experience : September 03, 2023

The College Essay Guy Podcast: A Practical Guide to College Admissions

509: What Colleges Want (Part 8): Extracurricular Activities Deep Dive: How Getting Involved In and Out of School Can Boost Your Application

May 28, 2024

508: What Colleges Want (Part 7B): Recommendation Letter Crash Course for Counselors and Teachers

Apr 30, 2024

507: What Colleges Want (Part 7A): Recommendation Letter Crash Course for Students and Families

Apr 9, 2024

What goes into a letter of recommendation?
How are they evaluated by colleges?
Who should students consider...

506: What Colleges Want (Part 6): Demonstrated Interest: What Is it, Why Is it Important, and How Do You Show it? with Dean of Enrollment Christine Bowman

Mar 26, 2024

On today’s episode, Ethan is joined by Christine Bowman, Assistant VP for Admission at Southwestern University. In part 6 in our series on What Colleges Want, Ethan and Christine get into:

What is demonstrated interest and how do colleges track it?
How important is demonstrated interest to a student’s chance of...

505: What Colleges Want (Part 5): A Crash Course in the Supplemental Essays + Application with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy)

Mar 12, 2024

About the Podcast

Practical, up-to-date interviews with experts in college admissions, financial aid, personal statements, test prep and more. Ethan Sawyer (aka College Essay Guy), interviews deans of admission, financial aid experts, and veterans of the admissions field to extract, then distill their advice into practical steps for students and those guiding them through the process. From creating an awesome college list to appealing a financial aid letter, Ethan skips the general advice and gets right to the action items, all in an effort to bring more ease, joy and purpose into the college admissions process.

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65 episodes

The College Essay Guy Podcast: A Practical Guide to College Admissions Ethan Sawyer

4.5 • 198 Ratings
MAY 28, 2024

What Colleges Want (Part 8): Extracurricular Activities Deep Dive: How Getting Involved In and Out of School Can Boost Your Application

On today’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) is joined by Carolyn Starks, a former Pomona and Bates admissions officer and Associate Director of College Counseling at Oakwood School (North Hollywood, CA) at the time of recording, to talk about extracurricular activities and the activities list on college applications. They get into, among other things: What are some of the benefits of getting involved in your school community? How can students explore activities outside of their high schools? How do admission officers evaluate a student’s activities list? Frequently asked questions about activities and summer programs And more! But first, let’s meet Carolyn: Carolyn Starks followed her father’s footsteps and attended Rhodes College in Memphis, TN where she studied English and Africana Studies. After graduation, she moved to Portland, ME to work at Bates College where she focused on supporting first-generation-to-college, BIPOC, and/or low-income students through the admissions process. After two years, she landed a job at Pomona College’s Office of Admissions where she joined the Access Team, ran the College’s diversity fly-in programs, and learned to be justice oriented in her approach to educational equity. Though at the time of recording Carolyn was Oakwood School in North Hollywood’s Associate Director of College Counseling, she will soon be moving to serve as Co-Director of College Counseling at Santa Fe Prep in Santa Fe, NM. In her free time, Carolyn enjoys indulging in local cuisine and watching Bravo with her husband and her dog, Ms. Pecan Pie. We hope you enjoy the episode. Play-by-Play 4:48 - What is Carolyn’s background? 6:20 - What activities was Carolyn involved in during high school? 8:36 - What activities did Tom participate in during high school? 10:45 - How can students learn about the opportunities at their school? 16:50 - Why should students get involved within their school community? 23:09 - How can students be involved in extracurriculars outside their school? 29:57 - What should students keep in mind when applying to highly selective schools? 36:13 - Do colleges have preferred activities or summer experiences? 36:41 - Does placement on an activities list matter? 37:37 - How many years should students participate in an activity? 39:05 - How important is having formal leadership roles? 42:18 - What might not be worth putting on your activities list? 46:25 - How many activities is enough? 51:22 - How can students maintain a balance between their home life, academic, and extracurricular activities? 55:47 - Closing thoughts Resources Extracurricular Activities: A comprehensive guide with 400+ examples and ideas How to Write a Successful Common App Activities List A List of Activities You May Not Have Considered Including—But That Count! 80+ Real Examples for Writing Your Extracurricular Activity List

APR 30, 2024

What Colleges Want (Part 7B): Recommendation Letter Crash Course for Counselors and Teachers

Today’s episode is all about writing letters of recommendation for teachers and counselors. Continuing our series on What Colleges Want, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) is joined by Hanah Lim (CEG’s Director of Workshops and a former high school English teacher), where they provide their tips, tricks, and hacks to help you write more efficient and effective letters for your students. Tom and Hanah discuss: How long should letters be and what format works best? How do letters differ between counselors and teachers? What details might be helpful to include, and what should be avoided? How can teachers and counselors efficiently gather more information about their students to include in the letter? We hope you enjoy the episode! In case you missed it: Students and families, be sure to check out last week’s episode with Ayesha King to learn about what goes into a letter of recommendation, how they are evaluated by colleges, and who students should consider asking. Hanah Lim is the Director of Workshops at College Essay Guy and a former public high school English teacher. She oversees College Essay Guy's essay and application workshop team and organizes speaking events and college application and essay workshops for students at schools and organizations in the US and around the world. She has presented college essay workshops to thousands of students across diverse settings, including community-based organizations, public, international, and independent schools. She also worked as a college consultant for students in Bangkok, Thailand, directed SAT prep centers in Irvine, California and worked with non-profit groups and as an AVID teacher and coordinator to help close the achievement gap. She holds a B.A. in English with an emphasis in Education from California State University of Long Beach. Hanah finds joy in watching musicals, visiting Disney parks with her husband, and playing with her two cats. Play-by-Play 2:19 - Hanah and Tom share their school contexts for writing their letters of recommendation 5:40 - How much weight do letters of recommendation hold in admission? 10:25 - What is the best practice for the length of a letter of recommendation for college? 10:57 - How should it be formatted? 14:03 - Should a letter be customized for each college? 15:38 - What else is submitted with the student’s application from the high school? 16:19 - What is covered in the school profile? 19:44 - What is covered in the counselor’s letter? 25:25 - What is covered in the teacher's letter? 30:46 - How does the Supreme Court ruling on race-conscious admission affect letters of recommendation? 36:29 - What generally might be not as helpful to include in the letter? 40:38 - Hanah shares her process for writing letters of recommendation 49:18 - Tom shares his process for writing letters of recommendation 59:01 - How to incorporate a student’s essay brainstorming work 1:01:37 - How could generative AI be utilized in the recommendation writing process? 1:07:08 - Closing thoughts Resources Continued Learning On-Demand Webinar: How to Write Better Recommendations in Less Time How (and Why) to Uplevel Your School Profile Post-SCOTUS (College Essay Guy) CEG Podcast Episode 507: What Colleges Want (Part 7A): Recommendation Letter Crash Course for Students and Families Sample Recommendation Letters Sample Recommendation Letters by Student Archetype How to Write a Letter of Recommendation: Counselor's Guide + Samples (College Essay Guy) How to Write a Recommendation Letter for a Student: Teacher's Guide + Samples (College Essay Guy) Junior Questionnaires/Recommendation Request Form Questions Sample Junior Questionnaire (for Counselor Recommendations) Hanah Lim’s Teacher Recommendation Request Form Helpful Student Brag Sheet Questions for Teacher Letters of Recommendation (Johns Hopkins University) Working with Recommenders and Advisors (several brag sheets from Common

APR 9, 2024

What Colleges Want (Part 7A): Recommendation Letter Crash Course for Students and Families

This week, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) is joined by Ayesha King (Director of College Counseling at the International School of Los Angeles) to talk about letters of recommendation. They get into: What goes into a letter of recommendation? How are they evaluated by colleges? Who should students consider asking, and how do they ask? What can students and families do to ensure that their letters are the best they can be? What are FERPA rights and why should you waive them? Ayesha King (she/her) has over twelve years of experience in admissions at the secondary, undergraduate, and postgraduate levels, developing her values of social justice, equity and access. She is currently the Director of College Counseling at the International School of Los Angeles (LILA), a French International school, where she is stretching her skills working with students considering post-secondary options all over the world. She holds her Bachelors degree from the University of Redlands and her Masters degree from California Lutheran University. Ayesha loves spending time with her two boys and two dogs, visiting Disneyland, and talking about pop culture. This is the next episode in our series on What Colleges Want. Stay tuned for our upcoming episode about writing letters of recommendation for teachers and counselors. Tom will be joined by Hanah Lim (CEG’s Director of Workshops and a former high school English teacher), where they provide their tips, tricks, and hacks to help you write more efficient and effective letters for your students. Play-by-Play 2:49 - How important are letters of recommendation to admissions officers? 5:55 - Why might it be called a “Letter of Advocacy” instead? 7:19 - When would a letter of recommendation make a big impact on a student’s application? 13:38 - Should students also share this important context if it’s already in their recommendation letter? 15:35 - How can students determine how many letters to request? 19:49 - What is being said in these letters? 26:38 - Which teachers are typically the best to ask for a recommendation letter? 29:51 - Why should students consider asking a teacher from a class they struggled in? 30:47 - What can students do to help their teachers & counselors write the best letter possible? 36:06 - What information should students share with their recommenders? 39:20 - How should students ask for a letter once they have determined who to ask? 44:41 - Do students ever see their letters of recommendation? 48:24 - Closing advice for parents & students Resources How to Ask for a Letter of Recommendation for College: Step-by-Step Guide for Students CollegeTransitions Blog Post - College Recommendation Requirements Podcast Ep. 505 - What Colleges Want (Part 5): A Crash Course in the Supplemental Essays + Application with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy) How to Write a Successful Common App Activities List How to Use the Common App Additional Information Section: Guide + Examples 100 Brave + Interesting Questions Pedro Pascal Cries From His Head While Eating Spicy Wings

MAR 26, 2024

What Colleges Want (Part 6): Demonstrated Interest: What Is it, Why Is it Important, and How Do You Show it? with Dean of Enrollment Christine Bowman

On today’s episode, Ethan is joined by Christine Bowman, Assistant VP for Admission at Southwestern University. In part 6 in our series on What Colleges Want, Ethan and Christine get into: What is demonstrated interest and how do colleges track it? How important is demonstrated interest to a student’s chance of getting in? How might students find out if a particular school considers demonstrated interest in their admission review? What are some practical ways you can demonstrate your interest to colleges? Christine Bowman is the Assistant VP for Admission at Southwestern, where she oversees the admission department to set enrollment and retention philosophies. She has a Masters in Higher Ed Administration from UT-Austin, was the Co-Chair for the 2007 NACAC National Conference in and has served two terms as the Chair of the Colleges that Change Lives Board of Directors (see last season’s episode with Ann Marano for more on CTCL’s work). She currently serves on the advisory board of ROCA-NM (Rural Opportunities for College Access) and, with almost 30 years of experience in the admission profession, Christine believes in guiding students to find the right college fit and regularly gives presentations encouraging a stress-free college search process. We hope you enjoy the conversation! Play-by-Play 2:15 - What is demonstrated interest? 5:00 - Why might demonstrated interest be important to colleges? 8:22 - What is yield? 11:24 - How can students demonstrate interest for a particular school? 15:17 - What can colleges track? 18:52 - For whom does demonstrated interest matter most? 23:47 - How to “break up” with a college 27:05 - What are some practical tips for students as they reach out to a college? 30:10 - How might an admissions officer use demonstrated interest? 32:58 - What ways can students demonstrate interest without visiting campus? 37:24 - What is the difference between early action, early decision, and regular decision? 40:25 - How important is the college interview? 48:10 - What can parents do to support their students during this process? 53:02 - Closing advice for parents, students, and counselors Resources A Behind the Scenes Look at Demonstrated Interest w/Christine Bowman (Southwestern University) What is Demonstrated Interest? A Practical How-To Guide Factors in the Admission Decision (NACAC Report) How to Decide Whether to Apply Early Action (EA) or Early Decision (ED) College Interview Tips and Strategies - The Ultimate Guide CEG Podcast Episode 411: Finding Your Why, What a Liberal Arts Education Really Is, and How to Figure out What You Actually Want w/ Ann Marano (CTCL)

MAR 12, 2024

What Colleges Want (Part 5): A Crash Course in the Supplemental Essays + Application with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy)

On this week’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) sits down with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy) for Part 5 in our What Colleges Want series to talk about some of the other written parts of the application—the activities list, additional information section, and supplemental essays. Tom and Ethan get into: How can students write a great Activities List? How can you find out what colleges are looking for in the supplemental essays? And what even is the additional information section? What is a ‘Super Essay’ and how might it be useful? How does a student know when their application is complete? Fun fact: You’ll find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the College Essay Guy YouTube channel. Play-by-Play 1:09 - What are the other writing components of a college application? 5:26 - How can students write a great Activities List? 9:33 - Does the order of the activities matter? 11:41 - Are activities from 9th and 10th grade worth putting in the Activities List? 13:37 - When should students elaborate on Activities in their Additional Info section? 17:05 - What else can go into the Additional Info section? 23:14 - What are some things to avoid putting in the Additional Info section? 24:41 - How should students format the Additional Info section? 26:19 - Why do some colleges have supplemental essays? 27:31 - What are some of the most common supplemental essays prompts? 34:11 - How might institutional priorities impact an individual applicant? 44:14 - What is a ‘Super Essay’ and how is it used? 49:12 - How does a student know when their application is complete? Resources How to Write a Successful Common App Activities List How to Use the Common App Additional Information Section: Guide + Examples My College List (Research + Essay Topic Tracker) School-Specific Supplemental Essays Why This College Essay Guide + Examples How to Combine Your College Essay Prompts (To Save 20+ Writing Hours) What the Heck are "Hooks" and "Institutional Priorities"? The Values Exercise CEG Podcast Episode 101: Life As an Undocumented Student at Harvard CEG Podcast Episode 504: What Colleges Want (Part 4): A Crash Course in the Personal Statement with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy)

MAR 5, 2024

What Colleges Want (Part 4): A Crash Course in the Personal Statement with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy)

On this week’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) sits down with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy) for Part 4 in our What Colleges Want series to talk about the personal statement. According to the latest State of College Admission report – after grades, course rigor, and positive character traits (see previous episodes), the college essay is what colleges care about most. Tom and Ethan get into: What is the purpose of the personal statement? How do you find a topic, especially if you’re not writing about challenges? Why do I recommend students NOT choose a common extracurricular activity as their main college essay topic? How do you stand out? And how do you know when you’re done? Fun fact: You’ll find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the College Essay Guy YouTube channel. Play-by-Play 1:38 - What is the purpose of the personal statement in the college admission process? 2:53 - How might students use this statement for multiple schools? 3:48 - Should students talk about challenges they’ve faced in a personal statement? 6:47 - Should students talk about their major or career goals? 8:33 - Where is the best place to discuss extracurricular activities? 10:20 - Should students explain red flags in their personal statement? 11:26 - How can students brainstorm potential topics for their personal statement? 17:56 - What is the structure of a personal statement? 21:11 - How can students stand out? 28:57 - Case Study: What does the process look like from brainstorming to final draft? 35:39 - How does a student know when their essay is done? 38:27 - Is there a place for artificial intelligence in the college essay? 41:47 - have personal statements shifted since the Supreme Court ruling on Race-Conscious Admissions? 44:04 - Why does the personal statement process matter? 49:14 - Closing thoughts Resources YouTube Video version of this episode (504) Sample personal statements 7 Brainstorming Exercises (YouTube video) The “Food” essay (YouTube video analysis) The Great College Essay Test Why You Don’t Have to Write about Trauma in Your College Essay to Stand Out—and What You Can Do Instead Matchlighters Informaiton CEG Podcast Episode 404: Race-Conscious Admission Was Struck Down—What Does This Mean and What Can Students and College Counselors Do? w/ Jay Rosner Is It “Okay” to Talk About Race in Your College Application and Essays—And If So, How Should You Do It?

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5 strategies to unlock your winning college essay.

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CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS - JUNE 29: People walk through the gate on Harvard Yard at the Harvard ... [+] University campus on June 29, 2023 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that race-conscious admission policies used by Harvard and the University of North Carolina violate the Constitution, bringing an end to affirmative action in higher education. (Photo by Scott Eisen/Getty Images)

The college application season is upon us, and high school students everywhere are staring down at one of the most daunting tasks: the college essay. As someone who has guided countless applicants through the admissions process and reviewed admissions essays on an undergraduate admissions committee, I've pinpointed the essential ingredient to a differentiated candidacy—the core of your college admissions X-factor .

The essential ingredient to your college admissions X-factor is your intellectual vitality. Intellectual vitality is your passion for learning and curiosity. By demonstrating and conveying this passion, you can transform an average essay into a compelling narrative that boosts your chances of getting accepted to your top schools. Here are five dynamic strategies to achieve that goal.

Unleash Your Authentic Voice

Admissions officers sift through thousands of essays every year. What stops them in their tracks? An authentic voice that leaps off the page. Forget trying to guess what the admissions committee wants to hear. Focus on being true to yourself. Share your unique perspective, your passions, and your values. Authenticity resonates deeply with application reviewers, making your essay memorable and impactful. You need not have experienced trauma or tragedy to create a strong narrative. You can write about what you know—intellectually or personally—to convey your enthusiasm, creativity, and leadership. Intellectual vitality shines through when you write with personalized reflection about what lights you up.

Weave A Captivating Story

Everyone loves a good story, and your essay is the perfect place to tell yours. The Common Application personal statement has seven choices of prompts to ground the structure for your narrative. The most compelling stories are often about the smallest moments in life, whether it’s shopping at Costco or about why you wear socks that have holes. Think of the Common Application personal statement as a window into your soul rather than a dry list of your achievements or your overly broad event-based life story. Use vivid anecdotes to bring your experiences to life. A well-told story can showcase your growth, highlight your character, and illustrate how you've overcome challenges. Intellectual vitality often emerges in these narratives, revealing how your curiosity and proactive approach to learning have driven you to explore and innovate.

Reflect And Reveal Insights

It's not just about what you've done—it's about what you've learned along the way. When you are writing about a specific event, you can use the STAR framework—situation, task, action, and result (your learning). Focus most of your writing space on the “R” part of this framework to dive deeply into your experiences and reflect on how they've shaped your aspirations and identity.

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The most insightful college-specific supplement essays demonstrate depth of thought, and the ability to connect past experiences with your future life in college and beyond. Reflecting on your intellectual journey signals maturity and a readiness to embrace the college experience. It shows admissions officers that you engage deeply with your studies and are eager to contribute to the academic community.

Highlight Your Contributions—But Don’t Brag

Whether it's a special talent, an unusual hobby, or a unique perspective, showcasing what you can bring to the college environment can make a significant impact. Recognize that the hard work behind the accomplishment is what colleges are interested in learning more about—not retelling about the accomplishment itself. (Honors and activities can be conveyed in another section of the application.) Walk us through the journey to your summit; don’t just take us to the peak and expect us know how you earned it.

Intellectual vitality can be demonstrated through your proactive approach to solving problems, starting new projects, or leading initiatives that reflect your passion for learning and growth. These experiences often have a place in the college-specific supplement essays. They ground the reasons why you want to study in your major and at the particular college.

Perfect Your Prose

Great writing is essential. Anyone can use AI or a thesaurus to assist with an essay, but AI cannot write your story in the way that you tell it. Admissions officers don’t give out extra credit for choosing the longest words with the most amount of syllables.

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Court documents reveal details about the killings of 4 University of Idaho students

Martin Kaste

Suspect Bryan Kohberger made his first court Thursday in Moscow, Idaho. He faces murder charges for the killings of four University of Idaho students in November.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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Illustration of a woman sitting in a kitchen in front of a window. A shadow of man is casting on the window.

The Missionary in the Kitchen

I longed for purpose, meaning, the sense of being found. Then, one summer, I sort of was.

By Clare Sestanovich

At nineteen, I was practically Christian. No sex, no drugs, a lot of desperate hopes that didn’t seem so different from prayers: to be normal, to be smart—above all, to be good. I owned multiple translations of the Bible.

In reality, I wasn’t religious; I was just afraid. I’d seen friends get drunk or fall in love, and their altered states made me all the more careful about maintaining the stasis of my own. I skipped parties. I did my homework. (The Bibles were assigned reading.) As soon as a boy I liked liked me back—never mind, no, I didn’t. “Goodness” was a vague idea in my head—no one had ever told me precisely what it meant—so I made up the rules and granted myself the satisfaction of never breaking them.

My devotion to routine worked. I always got the best grades, always got home safe. People no longer bothered having crushes on me. But a changeless life is a small one, and, even as my fears shrank my sense of self, or perhaps precisely because they did, I was more aware than ever of the vast dimensions of the rest of the world. I chose to do without the expansive bliss of getting high or making out, yet still longed for that heady rush of understanding: there’s something out there bigger than you.

This, of course, is where the most important part of religion—God himself—might have come in handy. The catch was that no one I knew believed in him. They were all secular, intellectual, proudly lapsed, supposedly élite. My great-grandfather had been a failed minister who taught swim classes at the Y.M.C.A. because he couldn’t find a church; within a few generations, it seemed few in the family even looked for one to join. Sometimes my parents played religious music on the living-room stereo—Bach, Handel—but only to appreciate the art. On the fancy college campus where I lived, we didn’t read the sacred texts, we analyzed them. I had bought my Bibles for a notoriously difficult class, taught by a distinguished and austere scholar. When exam season arrived, I headed to the library with dread. My best friend had recently started dating someone, so I went by myself, the heavy translations weighing down my backpack. Everyone else I knew was at something called a foam party, where they danced under piles of airy white suds.

The studying paid off, but then the satisfaction wore off. I was still afraid and I was still alone. Also, my back hurt. And so, although I didn’t believe in God, secretly I wanted to. Like a professor, he was always giving tests, and his actually mattered. I envied the stakes of these ancient reckonings. Nothing that happened to me had Biblical proportions. No floods, all foam. I’d never even been kissed.

People with vague longings like mine are often called seekers. They want to find things: purpose, meaning, truth. Finding, in my own brief life, had mostly looked like striving. Empowering, sure, but predictable, solitary. What I really wanted was to be found. That summer, in what seemed to me like a miracle, I sort of was. I’d just moved out of my stately, anonymous dorm and into a run-down house a few blocks away. There were seven or eight other occupants, and the rooms were filled with the belongings of many more, a sedimentary record of all the students who’d come before us. The result was a huge mess, but also a current of excitement: here was a place for excavation—for revelation.

And already I had the sense of things being unearthed, or at least dislodged. When the living room filled up with strangers, I surprised myself by sticking around, then by accepting a glass of whiskey. Even when I was sober, everything seemed new. A boy who lived on the first floor was a friend, but he’d been abroad for a semester; something about him had changed. A boy who lived on the second floor was an acquaintance, but he was more handsome than I remembered. My own room was in the attic, tiny and often stiflingly hot, and I started sleeping naked. It felt strange and unsettling at first, and then it felt like nothing at all.

The house was on the edge of campus, which made it seem like it was on the edge of what was often referred to as “the real world.” One afternoon, I returned home to find a man who had just crossed from our world into the next—that is, a recent graduate—sitting in the kitchen using the Wi-Fi. He’d lived upstairs until a few months earlier, and he still had the password. This wasn’t so strange: the house was too disorganized to be a co-op in practice, but it was communal in theory. Then he told me that he was a missionary. That was strange. He didn’t look the part: no tie, no pamphlets. He had a scruffy beard and cutoff jeans and, just weeks earlier, he’d been sitting in the same library as the rest of us, a massive Gothic building designed to look like a cathedral. But here he was, talking about Jesus. He’d started going to a local church out of curiosity, even though he was against most organized religion, which he said reinforced in-group and out-group distinctions. He’d initially been most impressed by Jesus in an abstract, political sense: he was an exemplary community organizer. But what God meant to him now was deeply, intimately personal. He talked to Jesus every day, and Jesus talked back.

“Talk” really was the right word: these conversations were profoundly casual, or casually profound. Sure, they talked about sin and salvation, but also about books, romance, the drama of sharing a kitchen with seven other people. No problem, according to the missionary, was too mundane to also be divine. Jesus was always there to listen. More than that, actually: he was always there to love.

None of us in the house would have invoked a lofty word like “love” to describe what was circulating among us that summer. “Feelings” was the imprecise term of choice; if you were especially bold, you might admit that you had them for someone, mere possession an event in its own right. One evening, in the little attic room, the boy from the first floor had done just that. To me! My first reaction was disbelief. My second was disappointment. I was pretty sure my own feelings were for the boy on the second floor.

This was a little awkward, a little painful—but normal college stuff. (Even normal middle-school stuff, I realized with embarrassment.) And yet these common acts of possession were transfigured by all the talk of God. The missionary kept coming around, and, in his totalizing faith, I saw what it might really mean to let my feelings take hold. To be possessed.

I should note that most of the occupants of the house ignored the missionary. He was nuts, he was annoying—wasn’t it time for him to get his own Wi-Fi? I was the one, sometimes accompanied by the first-floor boy or the second-floor boy, who sat in the cluttered kitchen and asked him questions. They were big, almost ridiculous questions. Nothing like the ones I carefully rehearsed before speaking aloud in seminar. What was Jesus like? What had he said lately? Sometimes I’d laugh at my own questions, and the missionary would gamely laugh, too, which reassured me; if he knew how crazy all this sounded, then he might in fact be totally sane.

Among other things, God had been talking about me. He’d told the missionary to hang around the house, to answer my questions, to be my friend. This shouldn’t really have come as a surprise: isn’t this every missionary’s script? And though I didn’t really believe these conversations had taken place, at least not the way the missionary described them, as if Jesus had called him up out of the blue, I liked hearing about them. How many college kids, effortlessly cool or studiously ironic or just painfully self-conscious, will define the mystery of intimacy so baldly: to say that they feel drawn, as if by some otherworldly force, to be around you; to admit that they have things they are burning to tell you, to make you understand?

Which all makes it sound like the true love story here is going to be between me and the missionary. But what was perhaps most alluring about him was the way he believed that all this—our talk, our feelings—was not about anything so small and pitiful as two college kids with crushes. While I was avoiding the boy on the first floor and hovering around the boy on the second floor, not saying much to either, my conversations with the missionary gave me a way to say things I wouldn’t—possibly couldn’t—have otherwise. They had all the specificity of gossiping with a friend (Jesus called him on the phone!) and all the grandiosity of lecturing from a professor (the missionary, too, knew how to close-read the Bible). One afternoon, he told me that, in some sense, God was chasing each of us, trying to bring us into his fold. At church, they went so far as to say that God was jealous for our love, jealous of all the other fleeting objects of our devotion. This was a surprising inversion. Weren’t we the seekers? (Not to mention the coveters.) The missionary shrugged. Couldn’t it be both? In all our conversations, I took care never to sound as zealous as he did, but even in my skepticism there was a thrill to talking in this register. To speak of doubt, after all, was also to speak of desire. If God wanted me, did I simply have to want him back?

On the longest day of the year, I invited myself to a solstice celebration with the second-floor boy. Even I couldn’t have convinced myself it was a date; there were as many people piled in the back of his Jeep as could fit. In a stranger’s back yard, we arranged ourselves in a circle of more strangers—middle-aged hippies, goth teens, barefoot kids—and sang odes to the Earth in various discordant keys. A bouquet of dried sage was lit on fire and passed around the circle. When it was my turn, I stood with my arms stretched out like wings while a woman I’d never met traced the outline of my body with a thin stream of smoke. I closed my eyes, willing myself to be transported. When I opened them, the woman was staring me straight in the face. Embarrassed, I looked away. The ride back was quieter than the ride there. The Jeep smelled like our bodies, like dirt and sweat and smoke.

That weekend, we threw a party at the house. A boring party, by comparison: barbecue, beers, familiar faces. Except that everything seemed a little unfamiliar now, unsteadied by all those big questions, all those intense feelings. The possibility that God existed still seemed unreachable to me, but all the reaching made possibility itself—that there was more to life than I knew, that there was more to my life than I believed—an almost tangible presence. The embers in the grill glowed orange, the fireflies flashed on and off.

I sat across from the missionary, pretending to drink a beer. I was new to beer, and it still tasted bad to me, the way it tastes to children. The second-floor boy was there, too, our shoulders touching. The missionary was talking about love again. The most important thing about God, he told us, was that he loved you unconditionally. For some reason, this startled me. It almost angered me. Who, I asked the missionary, taking a fake sip from the beer bottle, would actually want to be loved like that? All-encompassing, all-permitting love sounded indiscriminate. And what were we doing here—at our fancy school, in our charmed lives—if not learning to discriminate, to value things in and for their particulars?

I don’t remember how the missionary answered my question. Later that night, I kissed the second-floor boy in a dark room cluttered with other people’s belongings. At the exact moment it happened—had anything more dramatic ever happened?—the first-floor boy walked in. I felt at once ecstatic and guilt-stricken. The best version of myself and the worst. Totally transformed, terribly the same.

Later that summer, the second-floor boy moved out of the house and into the real world. I never saw him again. I saw the missionary, but less and less. The first-floor boy also made himself scarce, skipping house meals, taking long walks. We had a few more parties, the light fading a little earlier each time. Beer started tasting normal—good.

In the fall, I found my first boyfriend. In a matter of months, I became a person who said “love” a dozen times a day: a greeting, a farewell, a text message with an object and no subject. “Love you.” It wasn’t until the dead of winter that I went to the missionary’s church for the first time. If you’d asked me why I was there, I would probably have given the old, familiar reason: homework. I was taking a writing class and I thought I might write about the church. My boyfriend, the grandson of a priest, said he liked the idea.

Is there any love as conditional as first love? Deep down, we all know there will be a second. I was in the process of discovering these conditions: the rules my boyfriend and I made up as we went along, the consequences we inflicted on each other. And yet, of course, we told each other it would last forever. We might even have believed it.

Faith in unconditional love can seem like the bliss of ignorance—a comforting story to tell ourselves. But I’m not sure that’s right. What the missionary understood, I think, is that this sort of love is in fact the most fearsome kind. If God loves you whether you’re in or out, good or bad, can you be sure he’s really there? The question is not only for the religious. Can we be sure of each other? Can we be sure of ourselves?

That morning in church was one of those winter days that is both blindingly bright and punishingly cold. I brought a notebook, as proof that I was just there to observe. I opened up the Bible. At the front of the room, someone played a keyboard that had been made to sound like an organ. I sat in the last row, with a view of the backs of everyone’s heads, so it was only at the very end of the service, as the congregants stood up and turned to leave, that I saw the boy from the first floor. His head was slightly bowed and I almost didn’t recognize him. When I did, I probably gasped.

I watched him walk out into the winter morning, sun streaming through the door, lighting up the dust in the air. I looked down at my notebook, where the page in front of me was still perfectly blank. ♦

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Watch CBS News

Never-before-seen photos and details about the man accused of murdering four Idaho college students

By Peter Van Sant

January 7, 2023 / 11:02 PM EST / CBS News

Under a dark Idaho sky, investigators flew Bryan Kohberger to the college town of Moscow. Police delivered him to the Latah County Jail. On Jan. 5, in an orange jumpsuit, his face vacant, the 28-year-old made what will likely be his first of many appearances in this court.

He stands charged with the murder of four students from the University of Idaho: Kaylee Goncalves, Madison "Maddie" Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle. Investigators say he stabbed them to death in the home the women shared.

JUDGE: The maximum penalty for this offense, if you plead guilty or be found guilty is up to death and imprisonment for life. Do you understand?

BRYAN KOHBERGER: Yes.

Kohberger has not yet entered a plea.

In an affidavit , investigators laid out their understanding of the grim details about the night of the killings: They say the killer left his DNA on a "leather knife sheath" found on a bed next to Maddie Mogen. And, most hauntingly, they say a surviving roommate thought she heard crying and "saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask."

The man walked past, as she stood in "frozen shock." She locked herself in her room.

The investigation is fast-moving. Authorities have not disclosed a motive or if he had a connection to the students, but we are learning more about just who Bryan Kohberger is.

WHO IS ACCUSED KILLER BRYAN KOHBERGER?

Just 15 days before his arrest, Bryan Kohberger and his father were driving home from Washington State University for winter break to the family's home in Pennsylvania.

OFFICER (body cam video): Hello MICHAEL KOHBERGER: How you doing? OFFICER: How ya'll doin today?

The journey interrupted by two traffic stops, almost 10 minutes apart, in Indiana for tailgating.

MICHAEL KOHBERGER (to officer): We're gonna be going to Pennsylvania, a couple more miles. OFFICER: Oh, OK. MICHAEL KOHBERGER: …to the Pocono Mountains. We're a little, we're slightly punchy. We've been driving for hours.

Police body cam video shows Kohberger and his father talking calmly with an officer about the trip.

OFFICER: Hours? And days? BRYAN KOHBERGER: Hours. MICHAEL KOHBERGER: Hours. Well, we've been driving for almost a day. OFFICER: Do me a favor and don't follow too close, OK?

Then they are released with a warning.

Kohberger had been at the university since August, studying to get his Ph.D. in criminology. He was also a teaching assistant in the Department of Criminal Justice. He lived in an apartment complex on campus and had an office there.

According to the newly released affidavit, Kohberger had applied for an internship with the Pullman Police Department in the fall. He wrote in his application essay that "he had interest in assisting rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data."

Benjamin Roberts took four classes with Kohberger.

Benjamin Roberts : He seemed very comfortable around other people. He was very quick to offer his opinion and thoughts. And he was always participating fairly eagerly in classroom discussions.

He says Kohberger appeared highly intelligent.

Peter Van Sant : Does anything else come to mind that Bryan said to you in the past that today you think might be of interest?

Benjamin Roberts : There was a comment that he made, and it was kind of a flippant guy talk thing. At one point, he just idly mentioned, you know, "I can go down to a bar or a club and pretty much have any lady I want."

Kohberger arrived at the university after earning his bachelor's in psychology and master's degree in criminal justice at DeSales University in Center Valley, Pennsylvania.

While at DeSales, authorities say Bryan Kohberger posted this survey, approved by the university, on the website Reddit asking ex-cons about the crimes they committed. One question he asked: "Before making your move, how did you approach the victim or target?

James Gagliano : This could be a piece of circumstantial evidence.

James Gagliano is a retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent and CBS News consultant.

James Gagliano: The fact that the suspect was interested in pursuing a Ph.D. in criminal justice and was especially interested in … the mental state that people who had committed murders in the past … yes, it could be interesting to note. But I know a lot of researchers that study those things, too, that would never commit a quadruple homicide.

And if Kohberger was involved in these murders, genetic genealogist CeCe Moore questions why he would be so careless as to allegedly leave his DNA at the crime scene.

CeCe Moore : People are talking about how smart he supposedly is. And I just can't see how that could be true, because any student of forensic science or criminology would have to know that it's virtually impossible not to leave your DNA behind at a very violent, intimate crime scene like this.

CeCe Moore : You know, Ted Bundy thought he was smart. But he wasn't that smart, as it turns out.

After the murders, Roberts says Kohberger appeared disheveled, tired and chattier than usual.

But nothing could prepare Roberts for what he learned o f Kohberger's arrest.

Benjamin Roberts : Looking back over the last four months, I feel like there should have been signs that I should have seen. And I didn't ... I was blindsided.

Jason LaBar : This is out of character for Bryan, these allegations.

Monroe County public defender Jason LaBar represented Kohberger before he was extradited to Idaho.

Jason LaBar : The family would want the general public to know that Bryan is a caring son and brother —that's he's responsible, that he is devoted to them.

In a statement the family said, "we care deeply for the for the four families who have lost their precious children" ... and that they "seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions."

Jason LaBar : He is innocent until proven otherwise.

LaBar says Kohberger came from a close-knit family. He grew up in eastern Pennsylvania in the Pocono Mountains. His father was as a maintenance worker and his mom worked in the school system. Bryan has two older sisters – one who works as a family therapist, and another sister who appeared in a 2011 low budget slasher film, "Two Days Back," about a group of young students viciously murdered by a serial killer. She now works as a school counselor.

Bree : My heart goes out to Bryan's family.

Kohberger's friend, Bree, says she met Bryan at a party when they attended Pleasant Valley High School. She asked "48 Hours" not to use her last name.

Bree : Bryan was really funny. He wasn't outgoing at all. But he also wasn't shy.

She says they bonded over their love of the outdoors.

Bree : I don't necessarily remember the conversations, but you definitely remember how someone makes you feel. … I just remember feeling OK — I was just with a friend. … Just felt natural.

Bree recalls Kohberger was an average student with only a few close friends. In a yearbook photo, Kohberger's caption said he aspired to be an Army Ranger.

Casey Artnz also knew Kohberger from high school . She posted this Tik Tok following Bryan's arrest.

CASEY ARNTZ TIK TOK: "I used to be friends with Bryan Kohberger" ... "I'm in actual shock right now."

Casey Arntz : He was an overweight kid. … So, he did get bullied a lot.

But Arntz says people saw a change in Kohberger the beginning of senior year.

Casey Arntz : He lost like 100 pounds . … He was a rail. … It was after that weight loss that a lot of people noticed a huge switch in him.

Casey Arntz : My brother has since come out to say that even though they were friends, Bryan bullied him.

Casey Arntz : He had said that he would put him in like a chokeholds and stuff like that.

Bree says Kohberger started using heroin, which ended their friendship.

Bree : You just saw him becoming more self-destructive. … He really stayed secluded.

It's unclear when exactly Kohberger went into recovery, but both Bree and Casey say years after he graduated high school it appeared as if he was getting his life together. He was going to Northampton Community College and working security for Pleasant Valley School District.

Bree : He was telling me that he wanted to get sober, that he was getting sober. … And he wanted to let me know like, "I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna be better."

Bree : I'm sorry ... (emotional)

Casey Arntz : The last time I saw Bryan was in 2017 at one of my friend's wedding. … And I gave him a hug and I said, "You look so good. Like I'm so proud of you."

And both Bree and Casey say it appeared that Kohberger had a new focus — his studies in criminology.

Bree : He wanted to do something that impacted people in a good way.

Bree: People were not his strong suit. And think through his criminology studies, he was really trying to understand humans and to try and understand himself.

Now Bree, like many who knew him, struggles to connect the person they once knew to this unspeakable crime.

Bree : I think a lot of people who were close to him are feeling this massive amount of guilt … "Why didn't I see it? Did I miss something? … Where did it go wrong?

THE YOUNG LIVES LOST

Before it was a crime scene, it was a home to five close friends. Maybe none closer than Maddie Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves.

On TikTok, the 21-year-old seniors looked like they were enjoying their final school year.

In the early morning of November 13, the two friends headed to a food truck. But their seemingly carefree existence would come to an abrupt end just hours later. Kaylee and Maddie were stabbed to death in the upstairs part of the house. A hundred miles away in northern Idaho, Kaylee's father Steve got the news.

Peter Van Sant : Steve, give us a sense of the shock of that moment.

Steve Goncalves : You just feel like you're getting crushed by a thousand pounds of weight.

Peter Van Sant : What do you want the world to know about your daughter, Kaylee?

Steve Goncalves : I want the world to know, they — they got robbed. Somebody stole from you.

Steve Goncalves says his daughter Kaylee would have made the world a better place. A general studies major, she was the middle child of five siblings. Goncalves says Kaylee was always up for a challenge.

Steve Goncalves : She grew up around two boys that were, you know, older than her. And uh, she didn't see any reason why she couldn't be as quick and fast and as good as those two boys were.

Peter Van Sant : What did she want to do with her life?

Steve Goncalves : Like most young people, it changed. She was gonna be a teacher. … But once she found out how long it was gonna take to pay back her student loans, she — she said, "Dad, you know, this thing that you do with computers seems to work pretty well."

She reportedly had a job lined up in Austin but made it clear that one day she hoped to settle down somewhere near her dearest friend Maddie Mogen. Maddie was a marketing major, and she and Kaylee had been inseparable since the sixth grade.

Steve Goncalves : I just felt like it was more of a sistership than it was a friendship ... And she was just one of our kids.

So, it perhaps did not come as a surprise when Steve revealed at a November memorial that Kaylee and Maddie died side-by-side.

STEVE GONCALVES (memorial service): They went to high school together. … They came here together. … And in the end, they died together. In the same room, in the same bed. It comforts us. It lets us know that they were with their best friends in the whole world.

It was a belief Maddie's stepfather, Scott Laramie, repeated to another packed memorial just days later.

SCOTT LARAMIE (memorial service): The two of 'em were a force to be reckoned with. They stuck together through everything.

Maddie had a boyfriend, Jake Schriger.

JAKE SCHRIGER (memorial service): She was the first person I talked to every morning and the last person I talked to before bed.

They had been together for more than a year. Schriger says Maddie had a talent for making people laugh.

JAKE SCHRIGER (memorial service): She was really funny. Her jokes really would come outta nowhere … And just be like, "Is that the — the cute little blonde girl that just said that?"

But Maddie and Kaylee weren't the only victims. While two other roommates were in their rooms and unharmed during the attacks, on the second floor, the killer made his way to the room of Xana Kernodle.

JAZZMIN KERNODLE (memorial service): She was my baby sister, but she was so much wiser.

Xana's sister, Jazzmin.

JAZZMIN KERNODLE (memorial service): She would always tell me she wouldn't know what to do without me. And now I have to live this life without her.

A 20-year-old junior majoring in marketing, Xana was known for being focused on her studies. So focused, she didn't make much time for dating.

JAZZMIN KERNODLE (memorial service): Xana never had a boyfriend before, and my dad and I wondered if she was ever gonna get one (laughs).

That was until she met Ethan Chapin.

JAZZMIN KERNODLE (memorial service): The way she would talk and smile about him was something I've never seen her do before.

Ethan was a 20-year-old majoring in recreation and tourism management. Jazzmin says Xana and Ethan began dating in the spring of 2022.

JAZZMIN KERNODLE (memorial service): They had something so special and everyone around them knew.

Especially anyone who followed the pair on Instagram. For Ethan's birthday, Xana posted photos of them with the caption: "Life is so much better with you in it, love you!" It would be her last Instagram post. Just two weeks later, the young couple was found stabbed to death in Xana's bedroom.

At the University of Idaho, the pain of this tragedy is felt at the root and extends hundreds of miles away to a tulip farm in Skagit Valley, Washington. It's where Ethan worked before heading to college. His boss, Andrew Miller.

Andrew Miller : So, Ethan started – it was in the spring of — of '21. … It was the best Tulip Festival.

Miller says the annual tulip festival attracts close to half-a-million visitors, and Ethan stood out in the crowd.

Andrew Miller : Well, he's a big guy wearin' a big smile, right? I think that's the part that I – that kinda struck me right away.

Ethan – a triplet – worked there with his siblings, Maizie and Hunter, and lived in a rented house on the farm with their parents. The Chapin triplets were incredibly close says Reese Gardner.

Reese Gardner : They were best friends. … If one did something, they all did something. … It was pretty cool to see.

Including attending the University of Idaho together.

Andrew Miller : And that was the funniest thing, it was like, of course it was a package deal. Like, all three of 'em were gonna go there.

Ariah Macagba : He was excited, I think, 'cause his siblings were going with him.

Ariah Macagba says Ethan's parents had decided to live in Idaho, too. Macagba says when she heard Ethan had been murdered, she couldn't believe it.

Ariah Macagba : I think the first thing I did was message Ethan. I was like, "Hey, you're OK, right? Like, this isn't real." (crying) And — obviously, he didn't respond.

Reese Gardner scoured the internet for information.

Reese Gardner : And I just couldn't stop reading articles and … I just wanted to know what happened, and I wanted to know why.

But in lieu of answers, Gardner turned to tulips. He had an idea: name one after Ethan.

Reese Gardner : I thought, "There's — there's no better way … to remember someone who had such a big part, a big role in those farms."

Andrew Miller : Cause Reese called me … And it was, "Hey, can this be done, and are you interested in doing it?" And I was, "Yes, and hell yes."

But creating a new tulip is a long process, so instead, Miller suggested a mix of tulips that would be a perfect tribute to Ethan: yellow and white.

Andrew Miller : Yellow, of course, because Go Vandals. University of Idaho, right? That's significant. And then white is — is an eternal color, right? And tulips come up in the spring. It is a symbol of — of hope.

With his parents' blessing, they named the mix of tulips, "Ethan's Smile."

Andrew Miller : So, this will be a nice yellow or white tulip here in about four months.

The trio planted thousands of bulbs in the state of Washington and sent a couple thousand more to the University of Idaho.

Andrew Miller : And it really is our hope that we'll be able to continue to plant and that anybody that wants to remember him will be able to have their own Ethan's — Ethan's Smile Garden. … It's a living legacy.

Now it is up to prosecutors to get justice for these young victims .

IN SEARCH OF ANSWERS

Forty-seven days after the murders of Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogen, and Xana Kernodle, authorities apprehended the man they believed was responsible. We now know investigators had Bryan Kohberger in their sights early on but kept it close to the vest. So, in the early days, after the Nov. 13 murders, frustration swept over Moscow, Idaho.

James Gagliano : I think in this instance people were expecting a pretty quick arrest in this case, and it takes time.

Steve Goncalves, father of 21-year-old Kaylee, was trying as best he could to deal with news no one expects.

Steve Goncalves : Most things I'm prepared for. Most things as a dad, you can— you can handle. But somethin' like that, you just can't prepare for and you can't fix it.

Steve Goncalves : And, you know, just think if you do everything right, by the book, somethin' like this couldn't happen.

Peter Van Sant : Did you have any sense who might have done something like this?

Steve Goncalves : No … I didn't think anybody in her inner circles was — was capable of interacting and — and her doing something that could even deserve something like that.

As news spread of the murders, so did shock in the college community, which had not seen a homicide since 2015.

Matt Loveless : Parents drove hundreds of miles to pick up their kids to head home and stay home for the semester.

Matt Loveless is a journalism professor at nearby Washington State University.

Matt Loveless : At this point, we don't know if they're gonna come back for — the spring semester there on campus. And that same thing happened in both our communities.

James Gagliano: And, so, when parents send their kids off to school, for something to happen like this, I think it's a parent's worst nightmare

James Gagliano : And it's a place, Moscow, Idaho, where violent crime really is not an issue.

As police started their investigation, they traced the victims' final steps. The day before the murders seemed to start ordinarily. Kaylee Goncalves posted photos with her roommates and Ethan Chapin, to her Instagram account with the caption, "One lucky girl to be surrounded by these ppl everyday." That evening, Ethan and Xana attended a party at a fraternity house on campus. Kaylee and Madison were at a bar between 10 p.m. and 1:30 a.m. They were then seen at a local food vendor, the "Grub Truck." It is believed they all returned home by about 2 a.m. on Nov. 13.

James Gagliano : So, in examining the timeline , police know that the crime took place sometime in the early morning hours. There were also two other University of Idaho students who were inside the house when the murders took place.

It was later that morning that a call was made to 911 from one of the surviving roommate's phones to report an unconscious person. Police arrived at the house at 11:58 a.m.

James Gagliano : Police find the victims on the second and third floor of the house in bedrooms — a horrific and a very large-scale crime scene 'cause you're gonna be dealing with a number of different floors that need to be processed, the bedrooms where the crimes actually occurred, and then ingress and egress points. How did the — how did the alleged killer get inside the house? Through a front door? Through a window? Those are all things police will be looking at.

CHIEF JAMES FRY (to reporters): No weapon has been located at this time. There was no sign of forced entry into the residence.

On Nov. 16, three days after the murders, the Moscow Police held their first press conference.

CHIEF JAMES FRY (to reporters): We believe this was an isolated, targeted attack on our victims. We do not have a suspect at this time and that individual is still out there.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt issued her report on Nov. 17.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt: They were all murdered through stabbing with some kind of a, probably a larger knife…

She told police some of the four victims had defensive wounds, but none had signs of sexual assault. Police continued to work the case, aided by the Idaho State Police and the FBI.

James Gagliano : I just believe that the Moscow Police Department probably just didn't have a lot of experience in working a homicide, especially one as heinous as this one.

After about three weeks with no arrests, and what, to the public, appeared to be no real suspects, Steve Goncalves grew more concerned that authorities weren't doing enough and that the murders would turn into a cold case. So, he says, he started working with his own team to investigate the murders.

Steve Goncalves : So, we just thought, "This is the time. Let's get it out there, and let's not let it get cold. Let's get as many resources as— as possible."

Peter Van Sant : And did you have any sense whatsoever as to what a motive … might have been for these murders?

Steve Goncalves : Pretty girls and a handsome guy. I thought, you know, that might be somethin' to do with their, you know, stalking them in the sense of that.

Meanwhile, names of possible people of interest were trickling out — including members of the community and acquaintances of the victims. But they all seemed to be part of an unfounded rumor mill, many from online sleuths. Goncalves even had people come to him to prove they were not involved.

Steve Goncalves : We — had certain suspects take their shirts off in our kitchen to show if they had scratches. And we tried to do everything in — in our powers to make sure that if we thought somebody was ruled out, we truly — we truly felt like, you know, we — we looked at 'em.

Law enforcement would end up receiving thousands of tips, but the investigation, by outward appearances, seemed to be stalled. Nearly a month after the murders, on Dec. 7, police were seen packing up the victims' belongings to return to the families, who had lost so much. It was the police chief behind the wheel of the U-Haul truck. That same day, a plea was made to the public.

Police were interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra with an unknown license plate, spotted near the crime scene, around the time of the killings.

AMANDA ROLEY | KREM REPORTER: Today's update is the first descriptive tip that we have received in several days. Detectives now want to speak with anyone who was inside a white Hyundai Elantra that was near this home on King Road around Nov. 13th.

Police released photos of similar makes to the vehicle they were looking for.

CHIEF JAMES FRY (to reporters): We still believe there is more information to be gathered.

James Gagliano : Pushing that out to the media. Pushing that out to people on the internet. Pushing that out so that people can look for either a potential suspect, person of interest, or a potential vehicle. That goes a long way towards running down leads.

INSIDE THE INVESTIGATION

It turns out that about two weeks before the police asked the public to be on the lookout for a white Hyundai Elantra , they had already shared that information with surrounding law enforcement. And on Nov. 29, 2022, a white Elantra was located by Washington State University Police. The car was registered to Bryan Kohberger.

CBS News learned, that in mid-December, the Hyundai Elantra was tracked for several days by the FBI, using E-ZPass monitoring, fixed wing aircraft and ground support, as it was driven by Kohberger, along with his father, from Pullman, Washington, on that cross-country trip to the family's home in Pennsylvania.

On Dec. 15, the car was stopped twice in Indiana for those driving violations, by the Indiana State Police and the Hancock Sheriff's Office.

OFFICER: So, you're coming from Washington State University? MICHAEL KOHBERGER: Yeah. BRYAN KOHBERGER: Yup OFFICER: And you're going where? MICHAEL KOHBERGER: We're gonna be going to Pennsylvania.

Both agencies said at the time of the stops, "there was no information available on a suspect for the crime in Idaho, to include identifying information or any specific information related to the license plate state or number of the white Hyundai Elantra …"

Police did not ticket Kohberger; they gave a verbal warning and the trip continued home. And then, Kohberger's holiday came to an abrupt halt .

CBS NEWS REPORT: A suspect is under arrest for the quadruple murder of four Idaho college students.

On Dec. 30, 2022, police made that announcement that Bryan Kohberger was under arrest for the murders. He was arrested at his family's home in Albrightsville, Pa., at 3 a.m., with approximately 50 law enforcement officers on the scene.

MAJ. CHRISTOPHER PARIS | PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: There were multiple windows that were broken I believe to gain access, as well as multiple doors.

Authorities believe Bryan Kohberger acted alone.

Jason LaBar : Bryan was very shocked by his arrest. … Bryan did not know why they were there, but he was aware of the case in Idaho.

Monroe County public defender Jason LaBar represented Kohberger in Pennsylvania as he was awaiting extradition to Idaho.

Jason LaBar : Bryan indicated to me that he was eager to be exonerated — that he was willing to go back to Idaho.

On Jan. 3, at a hearing in Pennsylvania, Kohberger signed his waiver of extradition. And on Jan. 4, was flown to Idaho, where he is in jail, charged with the four murders.

On Jan. 5, Kohberger appeared in court in Moscow with his new public defender to hear the charges read against him. He has yet to enter a plea.

JUDGE MEGAN MARSHALL: The maximum penalty for this offense if you were to plead guilty or be found guilty is death or imprisonment for life. Do you understand?

BRYAN KOHBERGER: Yes.

That same day, that affidavit was released that laid out startling new details about the murder investigation. According to the affidavit, one of the surviving roommates actually saw the murderer and stood in a "frozen shock phase." She is referred to as DM in the affidavit, and told police that earlier, she heard a female voice say, 'something to the effect of "there's someone here." And later, a male voice say, "something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you." Later she opened her door "… after she heard crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask..." She described the figure as "5'10'… with bushy eyebrows."

The affidavit states that, according to DM, the male walked toward the back sliding door and DM locked herself in her room. It was later in the morning when that call was made to 911 from one of the surviving roommate's phones, to report an unconscious person. It is unclear what occurred in the hours before police were called. It is believed the murders took place between 4 and 4:25 a.m. Police say they discovered, on the bed in Madison's room, a knife sheath with a Marine insignia.

James Gagliano : I would imagine that a — crime scene as — as grisly and ghastly as this one — that there would have been … DNA left by the perpetrator.

According to the affidavit, the knife sheath was processed and "the Idaho State Lab later located a single source of male DNA on the button snap." They were able to link it to DNA recovered from the trash at the Pennsylvania Kohberger family home.

It is not clear, what, if any, connection Kohberger had with the victims. However, the affidavit states that by using cellular phone data, police were able to place Kohberger's cell phone near the crime scene "on at least twelve occasions before November 13, 2022. All of those occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours …"

Even with these new details, many question remain. A newly issued gag order prohibits officials and others involved in the case from speaking about the murders. Also, authorities have sealed a search warrant that was carried out at Kohberger's home in Pullman, Washington.

Jim Gagliano : This is one where you don't want a mistake. You don't want something to happen during this process that's going to give the alleged suspect an opportunity to beat the case.

Now, the case will work its way through the court system as parents, who lost their children, will be looking for answers.

Steve Goncalves : We find the truth, you know. You get the truth, and then that — that'll — that'll be everything.

IN REMEMBRANCE

You can see it in the stunned, silent faces of the kids. Faces that ask "why?" without even speaking.

Young eyes glisten, bathed in the glow of candlelight at a vigil held for the young lives lost. A ritual all too familiar across America. The flowers, the prayers, the vows to carry on. In Idaho, they hold on tight to each other and to the memories of those loved and lost.

EMILY (memorial service): Life is so unfair and unpredictable (crying).

For Xana Kernodle's friend Emily, the wound remains raw.

EMILY (memorial service): And it tears me apart knowing I can't hug her. (Crying) So hold those you love closer. Hug them a little tighter and tell 'em you love them. We'll find justice for you, Ethan, Maddie, and Kaylee. We love you all so much.

And for Ashlin, Maddie Mogen's memory is still vibrant.

ASHLIN (memorial service): You truly will live on forever -- not only in my heart, but in the heart of so many people that were impacted by your beautiful smile, your grace, your patience, your open heart, and your craziness.

Hunter Johnson remembers a pal he could rely on — Ethan Chapin.

HUNTER JOHNSON (memorial service): Ethan was always someone you could count on to make you smile and — cheer up your mood. … And I — feel so lucky to have shared so many great memories with him (emotional).

But those who are older perhaps sense that pain that runs this deep, never goes away. Kaylee's father, Steve Goncalves.

Steve Goncalves : You don't heal from somethin' like this. … it's never gonna happen. You're never gonna be healed. You're never gonna get through this. And when they die, part of you dies.

Steve Goncalves : We're tired of all these types of crimes. We're tired of all this stuff. And — we can rally around these terrible tragedies, and … We're hopin' that as a society we come back stronger. And we — we decide to not let this be accepted anymore, you know. That's what I hope for.

Bryan Kohberger's next court appearance is scheduled for Jan. 12.

He will have a chance to enter a plea at a later date.

Bryan Kohberger

"48 Hours" correspondent Peter Van Sant first joined CBS News in 1984.

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Whales Have an Alphabet

Until the 1960s, it was uncertain whether whales made any sounds at all..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

From “The New York Times,” I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”

Today, ever since the discovery that whales produce songs, scientists have been trying to find a way to decipher their lyrics. After 60 years, they may have finally done it. My colleague, Carl Zimmer, explains.

It’s Friday, May 24.

I have to say, after many years of working with you on everything from the pandemic to —

— CRISPR DNA technology, that it turns out your interests are even more varied than I had thought, and they include whales.

They do indeed.

And why? What is it about the whale that captures your imagination?

I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody who is not fascinated by whales. I mean, these are mammals like us, and they’re swimming around in the water. They have brains that are much bigger than ours. They can live maybe 200 years. These are incredible animals, and animals that we still don’t really understand.

Right. Well, it is this majestic creature that brings us together today, Carl, because you have been reporting on a big breakthrough in our understanding of how it is that whales communicate. But I think in order for that breakthrough to make sense, I think we’re going to have to start with what we have known up until now about how whales interact. So tell us about that.

Well, people knew that whales and dolphins traveled together in groups, but up until the 1960s, we didn’t really know that whales actually made any sounds at all. It was actually sort of an accident that we came across it. The American military was developing sophisticated microphones to put underwater. They wanted to listen for Russian submarines.

As one does. But there was an engineer in Bermuda, and he started hearing some weird stuff.

[WHALE SOUNDS]

And he wondered maybe if he was actually listening to whales.

What made him wonder if it was whales, of all things?

Well, this sound did not sound like something geological.

It didn’t sound like some underwater landslide or something like that. This sounded like a living animal making some kind of call. It has these incredible deep tones that rise up into these strange, almost falsetto type notes.

It was incredibly loud. And so it would have to be some really big animal. And so with humpback whales swimming around Bermuda, this engineer thought, well, maybe these are humpback whales.

And so he gets in touch with a husband and wife team of whale biologists, Roger and Katy Payne, and plays these recordings to them. And they’re pretty convinced that they’re hearing whales, too. And then they go on to go out and confirm that by putting microphones in the water, chasing after groups of whales and confirming, yes, indeed, that these sounds are coming from these humpback whales.

So once these scientists confirm in their minds that these are the sounds of a whale, what happens with this discovery?

Well, Roger and Katy Payne and their colleagues are astonished that this species of whale is swimming around singing all the time for hours on end. And it’s so inspirational to them that they actually help to produce a record that they release “The Song of the Humpback Whale” in 1970.

And so this is being sold in record stores, you know, along with Jimi Hendrix and Rolling Stones. And it is a huge hit.

Yeah, it sells like two million copies.

Well, at the time, it was a huge cultural event. This record, this became almost like an anthem of the environmental movement. And it led, for whales in particular, to a lot of protections for them because now people could appreciate that whales were a lot more marvelous and mysterious than they maybe had appreciated before.

And so you have legislation, like the Marine Mammal Act. The United States just agrees just to stop killing whales. It stops its whaling industry. And so you could argue that the discovery of these whale songs in Bermuda led to at least some species of whales escaping extinction.

Well, beyond the cultural impact of this discovery, which is quite meaningful, I wonder whether scientists and marine biologists are figuring out what these whale songs are actually communicating.

So the Paynes create a whole branch of science, the study of whale songs. It turns out that pretty much every species of whale that we know of sings in some way or another. And it turns out that within a species, different groups of whales in different parts of the world may sing with a different dialect. But the big question of what these whales are singing, what do these songs mean, that remains elusive into the 21st century. And things don’t really change until scientists decide to take a new look at the problem in a new way.

And what is that new way?

So in 2020, a group of whale biologists, including Roger Payne, come together with computer scientists from MIT. Instead of humpback whales, which were the whales where whale songs are first discovered, these scientists decide to study sperm whales in the Caribbean. And humpback whales and sperm whales have very, very different songs. So if you’re used to humpback whales with their crazy high and low singing voices —

Right, those best-selling sounds.

— those are rockin’ tunes of the humpback whales, that’s not what sperm whales do. Sperm whales have a totally different way of communicating with each other. And I actually have some recordings that were provided by the scientists who have been doing this research. And so we can take a listen to some of them.

Wow, It’s like a rhythmic clicking.

These are a group of sperm whales swimming together, communicating.

So whale biologists knew already that there was some structure to this sound. Those clicks that you hear, they come in little pulses. And each of those pulses is known as a coda. And whale biologists had given names to these different codas. So, for example, they call one coda, one plus one plus three —

— which is basically click, click, click, click, click, or four plus three, where you have four clicks in a row and a pause and then three clicks in a row.

Right. And the question would seem to be, is this decipherable communication, or is this just whale gibberish?

Well, this is where the computer scientists were able to come in and to help out. The whale biologists who were listening to the codas from the sperm whales in the Caribbean, they had identified about 21 types. And then that would seem to be about it.

But then, an MIT computer science graduate student named Prajusha Sharma was given the job of listening to them again.

And what does she hear?

In a way, it’s not so much what she heard, but what she saw.

Because when scientists record whale songs, you can look at it kind of like if you’re looking at an audio of a recording of your podcast, you will see the little squiggles of your voice.

And so whale biologists would just look at that ticker of whale songs going across the screen and try to compare them. And Sharma said, I don’t like this. I just — this is not how I look at data. And so what she decided to do is she decided to kind of just visualize the data differently. And essentially, she just kind of flipped these images on their side and saw something totally new.

And what she saw was that sperm whales were singing a whole bunch of things that nobody had actually been hearing.

One thing that she discovered was that you could have a whale that was producing a coda over and over and over again, but it was actually playing with it. It was actually stretching out the coda,

[CLICKING] So to get a little bit longer and a little bit longer, a little bit longer.

And then get shorter and shorter and shorter again. They could play with their codas in a way that nobody knew before. And she also started to see that a whale might throw in an extra click at the end of a coda. So it would be repeating a coda over and over again and then boom, add an extra one right at the end. What they would call an ornamentation. So now, you have yet another signal that these whales are using.

And if we just look at what the sperm whales are capable of producing in terms of different codas, we go from just 21 types that they had found in the Caribbean before to 156. So what the scientists are saying is that what we might be looking at is what they call a sperm whale phonetic alphabet.

Yeah, that’s a pretty big deal because the only species that we know of for sure that has a phonetic alphabet —

— is us, exactly. So the reason that we can use language is because we can make a huge range of sounds by just doing little things with our mouths. A little change in our lips can change a bah to a dah. And so we are able to produce a set of phonetic sounds. And we put those sounds together to make words.

So now, we have sperm whales, which have at least 150 of these different versions of sounds that they make just by making little adjustments to the existing way that they make sounds. And so you can make a chart of their phonetic alphabet, just like you make a chart of the human phonetic alphabet.

So then, that raises the question, do they combine their phonetic alphabet into words? Do they combine their words into sentences? In other words, do sperm whales have a language of their own?

Right. Are they talking to each other, really talking to each other?

If we could really show that whales had language on par with humans, that would be like finding intelligent life on another planet.

We’ll be right back.

So, Carl, how should we think about this phonetic alphabet and whether sperm whales are actually using it to talk to each other?

The scientists on this project are really careful to say that these results do not definitively prove what these sperm whale sounds are. There are a handful of possibilities here in terms of what this study could mean. And one of them is that the whales really are using full-blown language.

What they might be talking about, we don’t know. I mean, perhaps they like to talk about their travels over hundreds and thousands of miles. Maybe they’re talking about, you know, the giant squid that they caught last night. Maybe they’re gossiping about each other.

And you have to remember, sperm whales are incredibly social animals. They have relationships that last for decades. And they live in groups that are in clans of thousands of whales. I mean, imagine the opportunities for gossip.

These are all at least imaginable now. But it’s also possible that they are communicating with each other, but in a way that isn’t language as we know it. You know, maybe these sounds that they’re producing don’t add up to sentences. There’s no verb there. There’s no noun. There’s no structure to it in terms of how we think of language.

But maybe they’re still conveying information to each other. Maybe they’re somehow giving out who they are and what group they belong to. But it’s not in the form of language that we think of.

Right. Maybe it’s more kind of caveman like as in whale to whale, look, there, food.

It’s possible. But, you know, other species have evolved in other directions. And so you have to put yourself in the place of a sperm whale. You know, so think about this. They are communicating in the water. And actually, like sending sounds through water is a completely different experience than through the air like we do.

So a sperm whale might be communicating to the whale right next to it a few yards away, but it might be communicating with whales miles away, hundreds of miles away. They’re in the dark a lot of the time, so they don’t even see the whales right next to them. So it’s just this constant sound that they’re making because they’re in this dark water.

So we might want to imagine that such a species would talk the way we do, but there are just so many reasons to expect that whatever they’re communicating might be just profoundly different, so different that it’s actually hard for us to imagine. And so we need to really, you know, let ourselves be open to lots of possibilities.

And one possibility that some scientists have raised is that maybe language is just the wrong model to think about. Maybe we need to think about music. You know, maybe this strange typewriter, clickety clack is actually not like a Morse code message, but is actually a real song. It’s a kind of music that doesn’t necessarily convey information the way conversation does, but it brings the whales together.

In humans, like, when we humans sing together in choruses, it can be a very emotional experience. It’s a socially bonding experience, but it’s not really like the specific words that we’re singing that bring us together when we’re singing. It’s sharing the music together.

But at a certain point, we stop singing in the chorus, and we start asking each other questions like, hey, what are you doing for dinner? How are you going to get home? There’s a lot of traffic on the BQE. So we are really drawn to the possibility that whales are communicating in that same kind of a mode.

We’re exchanging information. We’re seeking out each other’s well-being and emotional state. And we’re building something together.

And I think that happens because, I mean, language is so fundamental to us as human beings. I mean, it’s like every moment of our waking life depends on language. We are talking to ourselves if we’re not talking to other people.

In our sleep, we dream, and there are words in our dreams. And we’re just stewing in language. And so it’s really, really hard for us to understand how other species might have a really complex communication system with hundreds of different little units of sound that they can use and they can deploy. And to think anything other than, well, they must be talking about traffic on the BQE. Like —

— we’re very human-centric. And we have to resist that.

So what we end up having here is a genuine breakthrough in our understanding of how whales interact. And that seems worth celebrating in and of itself. But it really kind of doubles as a lesson in humility for us humans when it comes to appreciating the idea that there are lots of non-human ways in which language can exist.

That’s right. Humility is always a good idea when we’re thinking about other animals.

So what now happens in this realm of research? And how is it that these scientists, these marine biologists and these computer scientists are going to try to figure out what exactly this alphabet amounts to and how it’s being used?

So what’s going to happen now is a real sea change in gathering data from whales.

So to speak.

So these scientists are now deploying a new generation of undersea microphones. They’re using drones to follow these whales. And what they want to do is they want to be recording sounds from the ocean where these whales live 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And so the hope is that instead of getting, say, a few 100 codas each year on recording, these scientists want to get several hundred million every year, maybe billions of codas every year.

And once you get that much data from whales, then you can start to do some really amazing stuff with artificial intelligence. So these scientists hope that they can use the same kind of artificial intelligence that is behind things like ChatGPT or these artificial intelligence systems that are able to take recordings of people talking and transcribing them into text. They want to use that on the whale communication.

They want to just grind through vast amounts of data, and maybe they will discover more phonetic letters in this alphabet. Who knows? Maybe they will actually find bigger structures, structures that could correspond to language.

If you go really far down this route of possibilities, the hope is that you would understand what sperm whales are saying to each other so well that you could actually create artificial sperm whale communication, and you could play it underwater. You could talk to the sperm whales. And they would talk back. They would react somehow in a way that you had predicted. If that happens, then maybe, indeed, sperm whales have something like language as we understand it.

And the only way we’re going to figure that out is if we figure out not just how they talk to themselves, but how we can perhaps talk to them, which, given everything we’ve been talking about here, Carl, is a little bit ironic because it’s pretty human-centric.

That’s right. This experiment could fail. It’s possible that sperm whales don’t do anything like language as we know it. Maybe they’re doing something that we can’t even imagine yet. But if sperm whales really are using codas in something like language, we are going to have to enter the conversation to really understand it.

Well, Carl, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Thank you. Sorry. Can I say that again? My voice got really high all of a sudden.

A little bit like a whale’s. Ooh.

Yeah, exactly. Woot. Woot.

Thank yoooo. No. Thank you.

Here’s what else you need to know today.

We allege that Live Nation has illegally monopolized markets across the live concert industry in the United States for far too long. It is time to break it up.

On Thursday, the Justice Department sued the concert giant Live Nation Entertainment, which owns Ticketmaster, for violating federal antitrust laws and sought to break up the $23 billion conglomerate. During a news conference, Attorney General Merrick Garland said that Live Nation’s monopolistic tactics had hurt the entire industry of live events.

The result is that fans pay more in fees, artists have fewer opportunities to play concerts, smaller promoters get squeezed out, and venues have fewer real choices.

In a statement, Live Nation called the lawsuit baseless and vowed to fight it in court.

A reminder — tomorrow, we’ll be sharing the latest episode of our colleagues’ new show, “The Interview.” This week on “The Interview,” Lulu Garcia-Navarro talks with Ted Sarandos, the CEO of Netflix, about his plans to make the world’s largest streaming service even bigger.

I don’t agree with the premise that quantity and quality are somehow in conflict with each other. I think our content and our movie programming has been great, but it’s just not all for you.

Today’s episode was produced by Alex Stern, Stella Tan, Sydney Harper, and Nina Feldman. It was edited by MJ Davis, contains original music by Pat McCusker, Dan Powell, Elisheba Ittoop, Marion Lozano, and Sophia Lanman, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

Special thanks to Project SETI for sharing their whale recordings.

That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you on Tuesday after the holiday.

May 31, 2024 • 31:29 Guilty
May 30, 2024 • 25:21 The Government Takes On Ticketmaster
May 29, 2024 • 29:46 The Closing Arguments in the Trump Trial
May 28, 2024 • 25:56 The Alitos and Their Flags
May 24, 2024 • 25:18 Whales Have an Alphabet
May 23, 2024 • 34:24 I.C.C. Prosecutor Requests Warrants for Israeli and Hamas Leaders
May 22, 2024 • 23:20 Biden’s Open War on Hidden Fees
May 21, 2024 • 24:14 The Crypto Comeback
May 20, 2024 • 31:51 Was the 401(k) a Mistake?
May 19, 2024 • 33:23 The Sunday Read: ‘Why Did This Guy Put a Song About Me on Spotify?’
May 17, 2024 • 51:10 The Campus Protesters Explain Themselves
May 16, 2024 • 30:47 The Make-or-Break Testimony of Michael Cohen

Hosted by Michael Barbaro

Featuring Carl Zimmer

Produced by Alex Stern , Stella Tan , Sydney Harper and Nina Feldman

Edited by MJ Davis Lin

Original music by Elisheba Ittoop , Dan Powell , Marion Lozano , Sophia Lanman and Pat McCusker

Engineered by Alyssa Moxley

Listen and follow The Daily Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube

Ever since the discovery of whale songs almost 60 years ago, scientists have been trying to decipher the lyrics.

But sperm whales don’t produce the eerie melodies sung by humpback whales, sounds that became a sensation in the 1960s. Instead, sperm whales rattle off clicks that sound like a cross between Morse code and a creaking door. Carl Zimmer, a science reporter, explains why it’s possible that the whales are communicating in a complex language.

On today’s episode

Carl Zimmer , a science reporter for The New York Times who also writes the Origins column .

A diver, who appears minuscule, swims between a large sperm whale and her cub in blue waters.

Background reading

Scientists find an “alphabet” in whale songs.

These whales still use their vocal cords. But how?

There are a lot of ways to listen to The Daily. Here’s how.

We aim to make transcripts available the next workday after an episode’s publication. You can find them at the top of the page.

The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Dan Farrell, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson and Nina Lassam.

Carl Zimmer covers news about science for The Times and writes the Origins column . More about Carl Zimmer

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