PhD, Postdoc, and Professor Salaries in France

France has a strong academic tradition and is committed to investing in research and education. Since French universities are public and state-run, academics who hold permanent positions are civil servants. This means that their salaries are set by the government. All salary statistics in this article are pre-tax amounts.

The doctorat is the highest academic degree and is required to hold French academic positions. The French doctorate is a primarily a research degree meaning that students do not take any mandatory courses. It can take three to six years to earn a French doctorate. The government set minimum doctoral salaries of €1684.93 per month for doctoral students who are only conducting research and €2024.70 per month for those who also have teaching responsibilities.

Postdoc Salary

A postdoc is a one- to five-year contract that allows a researcher to further specialize in a particular field after earning their PhD. Unlike more senior academic employees, postdocs are not civil servants and there is no national legislation concerning their salaries. However, many postdocs work at public research institutions which have highly-regulated salaries that are calculated based on degree and seniority. For example, postdoc salaries at Centre national de la recherche scientifique (CRNS) range from €2,000 to €3,700 per month. Institut national de recherche en informatique et en automatique (INRIA) pays its postdocs a salary of €2,653 per month.

Maître de conférences (MCF) Salary

This is the first permanent position, equivalent to an associate professor. MCF s are civil servants so their salaries are set by national legislation and don’t vary between institutions or disciplines. There are two ranks of MCF which determine the compensation level: classe normale and hors classe . Within these classes are different tiers which correspond to seniority. The salary scale for an MCF goes from €2,169.63 to €3,865.97 monthly for classe normale and from €3,123.58 to €4,976.56 a month for hors classe .

Professeur des universités (PU) Salary

This permanent position is equivalent to a full professor. A PU is also civil servant so their salaries are determined by national legislation. They do not vary between institutions and disciplines. There are three ranks of PU which determine the compensation level: 2e classe , 1re classe , and c lasse exceptionnelle . Within these three ranks are different tiers that correspond to seniority. The salary scale for 2e classe starts at €3,102.15 and goes to €4,531.39 per month, while the scale for 1re classe is from €3,865.97 to €5,473.28 per month. The salary scale for the highest rank, classe exceptionnelle , is from €5,473.29 to €6,220.96 per month.

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Financial benefits

  • PhD students will receive a salary of 1,684 €/month including health coverage and social benefits, which represents 1,422 €/month net salary.
  • In addition, they will be granted by their host laboratory a bonus of 10,000 € which can be used to buy a computer and books and to attend conferences and summer schools.
  • Daily commuting through the Ile de France public transportation network will be subsidized to 50% of the full costs.
  • Access to the student cafeteria will be subsidized.

Educational training program

Academic program . PhD students registered at Sorbonne University will be offered a large choice of training modules to strengthen their academic expertise as well as their soft skills. Please consult the catalogue here (note that training modules that are offered in English are marked with the English flag🇬🇧). PhD students will be invited to formulate a (non-binding) individual training plan for the duration of their PhD.

Scientific training. The i-Bio program will organize monthly seminars, journal clubs, oral presentation workshops, biennial retreats, as well as one or more annual summer schools designed to fit the interests and needs of PhD students (see here).

Thesis Advisory Committee (TAC) . Each year, the PhD student will meet with a TAC which follows his/her progress and identifies potential difficulties. The TAC will also offer guidance if needed.

Charter of Doctoral Training and Ethics guidelines . This charter defines the respective rights and obligations, as well as the reciprocal undertakings, of the doctoral partners, in order to ensure quality. The national ethics guidelines aim to define the criteria for good and ethical science. Related documents can be found here .

Graduate officer Valérie Goguel: [email protected]

Institut Polytechnique de Paris

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The PhD student community at a glance

  • 950 PhD students
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By pooling the disciplinary expertise and research facilities of its five founding schools, the Institut Polytechnique de Paris offers ideal conditions for researchers and future researchers. Pursuing a PhD at the Institut Polytechnique de Paris means benefitting from optimal support to innovate and expand the frontiers of knowledge. The internationally-recognized doctoral degree opens up high-level career opportunities in both the public and private sector.

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FAQ

Below are all of the answers to your questions about doing a Doctorate in France: duration, content, admission requirements, how it works, legal and administrative framework, etc.

Doing a Doctorate in France

Le doctorat en France

How long does a Doctorate take?

In France, it takes three to six years to complete a Doctorate, depending on the field, although there is no legal time limit. In the natural and technological sciences (mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, engineering, etc.), it usually takes three years and can be extended for a fourth year. In the social sciences and humanities (law, management, sociology, history, etc.), it usually takes four to five years.

During the first three years, re-enrolment is virtually automatic at the start of each academic year. After that, each year you will have to submit a file to reassure your doctoral school that you can complete your thesis within the time frame in order for your re-enrolment to be approved.

What is a doctoral school?

Doctoral schools are attached to a university or Grande Ecole , and are dedicated to supervising and teaching doctoral students. The work is conducted in conjunction with a research laboratory and under the authority of a thesis supervisor. They also supervise the enrolment and re-enrolment of doctoral students in their host institute.

What is a doctoral college?

A doctoral college includes all of the doctoral schools at a single university. It lays out the general policy for the organisation of the Doctorate within each institution.

Does a Doctorate give you ECTS credits?

With a few exceptions, French universities do not award ECTS for a Doctorate. The Doctorate is not generally considered training in and of itself but rather a research apprenticeship.

What degree will I be awarded at the end of a joint Doctorate?

At the end of a joint Doctorate, you receive two degrees : one from each institute you were enrolled in. Each degree nonetheless states that your Doctorate was completed in both establishments. It is possible, but rare, to receive a joint degree , bearing the names and logo of each institute.

Gaining admission to a Doctorate

L’admission en doctorat

What degree is required for admission to a Doctorate in France?

To be accepted for a Doctorate, you must hold a Master's degree or equivalent (national degree conferring the level of master). You can also demonstrate research experience or a five-year Bachelor's to the doctoral school in which you wish to enrol in order to have certain requirements waived and be authorised to enrol.

How to find a research laboratory

To find a research laboratory in your field, check our directory of doctoral schools . Use key words or field to narrow your search and select a doctoral school. The "Laboratories" tab then lets you scroll through the list of research laboratories associated with the selected school.

When do I have to apply?

Doctorate offers are generally published in January, and state an application deadline between April and May for the start of the academic year in September of the same year. Some are occasionally published during the year. Register on our search portal and create e-mail alerts so you don't miss an offer.

When does the academic year start and stop?

The academic year starts in September and lasts until the end of August. Classes take place between September and June. During the summer holidays, there is less activity and most doctoral schools are closed in August. Nonetheless, in a Doctorate, especially if you have a doctoral fellowship , you aren't subject to the academic timetable. In general, you have the right to five weeks of holidays that you can take throughout the year.

What are the admission requirements for a Doctorate?

Each doctoral school and thesis supervisor have their own admission requirements. The main requirement is your ability to complete the research. You will have few classes to take in a Doctorate and you must above all be independent: you will have to work on your own on a specific topic, within a laboratory and liaising with a team.

You will be selected for your ability to find information by yourself and to draft and implement a research protocol. If you have already authored or co-authored a paper, presented results in a conference or completed a long internship within a research laboratory, don't forget to mention it on your CV.

Do I first have to do a Master's internship in a laboratory?

It is not a requirement to complete a Master's internship in a laboratory. In the natural and technological sciences, it's an advantage when applying for a Doctorate. It will help you become familiar with the world of research, and eventually be noticed by your future thesis supervisor.

What is involved in a Doctorate

Le fonctionnement du doctorat

What is a doctoral fellowship?

A doctoral fellowship is a work contract specifically for doctoral students. It lasts three years, and can be renewed for one additional year twice at most. The doctoral student's net salary is approximately 1,350 to 1,400 euros per month in 2017. It can be higher when you perform additional activities.

Do I need a work contract or doctoral fellowship to enrol for a Doctorate?

A doctoral fellowship is not required to enrol in a Doctorate. Only a few research institutes do not accept unfunded doctoral students. Nonetheless, you will feel more at ease if you are under contract. Just like with every work contract, you will then qualify for unemployment benefits when it terminates and you will contribute to your pension if you are a European national. Doctoral fellowships are very frequent in the natural and technological sciences, much less so in the social sciences and humanities.

Can I do a Doctorate with a grant?

Generally, yes. Some research institutes do not accept doctoral students with grants. Generally speaking, your grant must be enough so that you can live and work under good conditions. Those with grants must also be able to take out health insurance and public liability insurance.

Each doctoral school determines the minimum amount of funding required for enrolment in a Doctorate at that school. It generally varies from 1,000 to 1,400 euros per month. If your grant is less than that, your laboratory must be able to pay you an additional amount that will ensure you receive the minimum amount required by the Doctoral school.

If I do my Doctorate within a research institute such as the CNRS, CEA or INRA, will I also be enrolled in a university?

Yes, as research institutes are not authorised to award degrees. You must therefore enrol in the university that is the partner of your research institute so that your Doctorate will be certified by the State.

What is a sandwich Doctorate?

A doctoral stay, called a "sandwich Doctorate", is when you spend time in a different university than the one you are enrolled in. For example, if you do a Doctorate at Yale University and you come to spend six months in a research laboratory at the University of Rheims.

There are two types of sandwich Doctorates. As part of a joint Doctorate, you must be enrolled in both a university in your country of origin and a French university. As part of a simple sandwich Doctorate, you generally won't need to enrol in the university , but it is recommended that you inform the doctoral school of your presence.

What is the difference between a Doctorate (PhD) and a DBA?

Some schools, in particular in management, award DBAs ( Doctorate in Business Administration ). These DBAs are outside the academic structure and are not certified by the French State.

A DBA associates classes and applied research. The objective of a DBA is that students apply theoretical knowledge in order to improve their professional practice. The first year is spent on training and a review of the scientific literature on the student's research subject. The following years are spent on writing a thesis and doing practical work. Some management schools offer a DBA falsely entitled PhD.

To obtain a Doctorate certified by the French State, you must be enrolled in a doctoral school and have conducted research that significantly adds to our knowledge.

Additional questions

Questions annexes

Can I do my Doctorate in France without speaking French?

In theory yes, but it varies depending on the field. In the natural and technological sciences, it is generally entirely possible to conduct your research, write your thesis and correspond in English with your thesis supervisor and colleagues. In the arts and humanities, on the other hand, it's much more difficult. Find out for your particular case from your doctoral school.

Will my medical costs be covered while I am doing my Doctorate?

If you have a work contract, doctoral fellowship or other contract, you are automatically registered for general Social Security. Your employer pays your contributions for you.

If you do not have a work contract you must register for Student Social Security at the same time while you enrol at the university. 

On average, Social Security reimburses 70% of medical expenses. For better coverage, you can take out complementary health insurance.

Le fonctionnement du doctorat en France

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PhD student

You have the opportunity to come to Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University as an international PhD student, either in the framework of a joint PhD, a doctoral research stay, or as a freemover.

You want to embark on a joint PhD programme between Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University and a foreign institution? You will find below information on how a joint PhD is organised, how to apply and funding opportunities.

Supervision The PhD student conducts his/her research under the responsibility of two thesis supervisors: one at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University and the other one in a foreign institution. The two supervisors are fully and jointly committed to exercise their functions as tutors. Location The doctoral student stays alternately at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University and in the partner university. The length of stay in each institution depends on the scientific requirements and the conditions for preparing the thesis, but it should not be less than one semester. Duration The usual duration of a joint PhD is three years, although a derogation of one year may be granted by the head of the institution on the basis of a legitimate request from the student, after consultation with the thesis supervisor and the doctoral school. Enrolment fees The PhD student is enrolled both at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne and at the partner university, but is exempt from the payment of tuition fees at one of these two institutions. PhD viva The joint PhD leads to a single defence recognised by both parties. At the end of this defence, the doctoral student receives both the doctoral degree from Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University and the one from the partner institution. Language The language in which the thesis is written and defended is defined by the agreement concluded between the two institutions. When this language is not French, the thesis is completed by an abstract in French.

After applying for a joint PhD at both Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne and a foreign university, you must establish a joint PhD agreement between these two institutions. What to include in the joint PhD agreement Although Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University provides a joint PhD agreement template (Word - 67 KB) , it is not strictly mandatory as your contract is the result of an agreement between the two partner institutions. If you wish to prepare a joint PhD between Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne and an Italian university, you must use the agreement template of the Université Franco-Italienne (UFI) (Word - 50 KB - French/Italian) . If you wish to prepare a joint PhD between Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne and a Swiss or Quebec university, you must ask the latter to draw up your agreement according to the template already established with French universities.

The agreement can be bilingual (each article being successively written in both languages) or in two versions (one in French and another one in a foreign language). Signature of the joint PhD agreement The joint PhD agreement must be signed in three copies by yourself and by three people from each of the partner institutions (the thesis supervisor, the director of the doctoral school and the president of the university). At Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University, the agreement must be submitted to the thesis department of your discipline in order to be forwarded to the research department and then to the president of the university for signature.

There is no deadline for signing the joint PhD agreement, but it is normally signed during the first year of enrolment in a PhD programme. This stage usually takes a very long time, given the number of signatories and the distance between them.

Eiffel Excellence Scholarship Programme (PhD level)

  • Be accepted as part of a joint PhD at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University in one of the following academic fields: Economics, Management, Law, Political science, Sciences (Mathematics, Communication sciences, Environmental science),
  • Be a foreign citizen (priority is given to citizens from developing and industrialised countries),
  • Be less than 35 years old
  • Amount and duration : €1400 per month (+ round-trip ticket) / 10 months maximum
  • Application procedure : get in touch with your doctoral school
  • More information :  campusfrance.org/en/eiffel-scholarship-implementation

Other grants In order to find out about other funding opportunities, we encourage you to check calls for applications on the websites of French embassies abroad, the  Instituts français  and the  Alliances françaises . You can also check the  grant search engine  available on the Campus France website.

PhD research stay

Find out the procedure to follow if you are a PhD student at a foreign university and wish to undertake a research stay at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University.

You must first submit your research project to one of the professors at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University with an HDR (accreditation to supervise research). The list of these professors is available from the websites of the university's doctoral schools (ED):

  • Archaeology (ED 112)
  • Art history (ED 441)
  • Economics (ED 465)
  • Fine arts (ED 279)
  • Geography (ED 434)
  • History (ED 113)
  • Law (ED 565)
  • Management (ED 559)
  • Philosophy (ED 280)
  • Political science (ED119)  

If a professor agrees to supervise your research stay at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne, he or she will issue you with a letter of invitation.

If your home institution and Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University have signed a student exchange agreement in your academic field and at your level of studies, you can take part in study mobility.  Once you have been preselected by your home university, you will receive a link from the International Relations Department of Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne to access the application form, which you will have to fill in and submit before 30 th May (if you wish to arrive in September for the first semester or the entire academic year) or before 30 th October (if you wish to arrive in January for the second semester). Before your departure, you must sign a learning agreement that lists the classes that you will take at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne (among those open to exchange students) and/or activities (offered by doctoral schools) in which you wish to take part during your mobility at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University.

You must then fill in the online application form with the following documents:

  • Learning agreement in  French (Word - 892 KB)  or in  English (Word - 891 KB)  completed and signed by yourself and by the academic teacher or research director of your home institution. Your learning agreement will be signed by your academic advisor at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne once you arrive in France. 
  • Letter of invitation from the professor at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University who agrees to supervise your research stay.
  • Language certificate of minimum level B2 ( DELF / DALF , TCF or a letter written by a French teacher from your home university). If you choose classes taught in English, you must also provide a letter written by an English teacher from your home university or an equivalent language certificate of English ( IELTS , TOEFL , etc.).
  • Copy of transcript of grades obtained in higher education, with a translation in French (see  grade conversion table (PDF - 315 KB - French) ).
  • Copy of the passport or identity card .
  • If you are an exchange student outside the Erasmus+ programme, you will also need to provide a CV , a cover letter and a letter of recommendation .

Once your application is accepted by Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne, you will receive your admission certificate by the end of June, and you will be able to enrol as an exchange student to be exempt from the payment of tuition fees at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University. During your stay in France, you will remain enrolled in your home institution and continue to pay tuition fees there. You also have the possibility to carry out an internship at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University. For more information on the procedure, please consult your home institution and the relevant doctoral school in Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne.

If your home university participates in the Erasmus+ programme, you can set up an Erasmus+ agreement for traineeship which could enable you to obtain an Erasmus+ "traineeship" grant from your home university.

Otherwise, you must draw up a hosting (or internship) agreement setting out your working conditions at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University, in particular the duration of your stay and the terms and conditions for your research supervision. This agreement must be signed by your host laboratory at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne, your home university and yourself. For more information, get in touch with your doctoral school.

If your application is accepted, you will have to enrol at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne as an unregistered student. This will allow you to obtain your student card and access to the university libraries.

You come from a partner institution

  • You are a PhD student at Columbia University (New York): check out the  Alliance program grants
  • If you are coming under an Erasmus+ student exchange agreement, you can apply for an Erasmus+ "study" grant or an Erasmus+ "traineeship" grant. In both cases, we encourage you to contact your home institution to find out how the grants are awarded.

You do not come from a partner institution If your home university participates in the Erasmus+ programme, you can establish an internship agreement and obtain an Erasmus+ "traineeship" grant from it.

Other grants

We encourage you to check calls for applications on the websites of French embassies abroad, the  Instituts français  and the  Alliances françaises . You can also check the  grant search engine  available on the Campus France website.

Full degree application

Find below the steps to follow to apply to Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University as a full degree international doctoral student. Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne will apply the same tuition fee rates for the academic year 2024/2025 to French and foreign students regardless of whether they come from a European Union member state (voted by the Board of Governors on 26th October 2023).

You need to check that the thesis topic you plan to cover has not already been defended or is not in preparation, using the two following websites:

  • www.sudoc.abes.fr
  • www.theses.fr

Submit your research project to one of the professors at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University with an  HDR  (accreditation to supervise research). The list of these professors is available from the websites of the university's doctoral schools (ED):

Once a professor at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne University who is authorised to supervise research has given his/her agreement to supervise your thesis, send your application to the doctoral school to which he/she belongs. This file must be sent between mid-June and the end of October, and must include the following documents:

  • Form completed online at  ecandidat.univ-paris1.fr , duly dated and signed
  • Copy of your master's degree or equivalent (the  ENIC-NARIC France can provide a statement of comparability between your degree and the French master's degree)
  • Thesis project in two versions: long version (2 to 3 pages) and abstract (300 words maximum)
  • Written agreement of the Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne professor who has agreed to supervise your thesis (this professor must be accredited to supervise research).

Your application will be reviewed in early November by the thesis commission of the doctoral school you have applied to. If you are accepted, you will have to sign the thesis charter upon your first enrolment.

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Prepare a PhD

The PhD degree attests skills acquired through research in the framework of the doctoral trainin g, which has a 3 years reference duration when the research work is carried out full-time, and a 3 to 6 years duration when the thesis is prepared part-time. The PhD degree can also be obtained by the validation of the acquired experience (VAE). 

The PhD degree - the highest internationnaly recognized by higher education - is awarded after the defense of a thesis or the presentation of a set of original scientific works. 

phd student salary paris

The different frameworks to prepare a PhD

  • Initial traininf (IF in French)
  • Lifelong training, excluding initial training  (FTLVin French)
  • Validation of the experience acquired (VAE  in French)

phd student salary paris

Admission to PhD training

  • A procedure
  • Examination of an application 

Three regimes for three PhD preparation frameworks

Registration in initial training is possible as a continuation of a master or other equivalent degree. 

  • In initial training, the PhD is full time prepared  The preparation is initially set to last  3 years. Beyond this 3 years, extensions of the duration of preparation are possible, with derogation.
  • Funding dedicated to the preparation of the thesis is requested for a registration in initial training.  The reference amount of this funding corresponds to the remuneration of the PhD contract established by public law.  Derogations from this funding threshold can be requested from the head of the establishment. 

PhD students have a main research activity in one of the research team or unit of the doctoral school. 

They also have complementary PhD activities and training, intended to develop their scientific culture, their international openness and to prepare their professional future. The PhD program is personalized and defined with each doctoral school, in a framework commin to all PhD students at Université Paris-Sacaly. 

They can have complementary activities outside research, which contribute to the preparation of their professional future (teaching mission, scientific mediation, expertise of promotion of research), limited to one sixth of their time each year.

  • A thesis monitoring committee report must be submitted by the PhD student for each of their re-registrations.

Registration in lifelong training concerns two categories of people : 

  • Those who obtained their last diploma more than a year before the desired date of first enrollment in a PhD (whether the thesis is prepared full-time or part-time, and regardless of the financing conditions envisaged)
  • Those who plan to prepare their thesis at the same time as a main activitiy other than the preparation of thesis, regardless of the date of the obtention of the last degree. The main activity means that its provides more than half of the income. 
  • Lifelong training does not two types require a funding dedicated to the thesis preparation, but its comission ensures, before the first registration, that material and financial conditions are correct.  Ultimately, candidates who have no funding to prepare their thesis and have no income from their main activity could prepare a thesis, as long as the doctoral school and the commission can ensure that the material and financial resources conditions. 

In lifelong learning, the PhD can be prepared on a part-time basis . 

  • The duration initially fixed for the preparation of the thesis depends on the time that can be devoted to its preparation . It is between 3 and 6 years. 
  • A derogation must be  requested to extend the duration of the PhD beyond the one initially fixed . Its could be discussed during the monitoring committee taht takes place each abnd every year before re-registration.

PhD students prepare their thesis in one of the research teams or units of their doctoral school . The distributio of their time between the research unit and their non-research activities is fixed from the first registration. 

As PhD student in initial training, PhD student in lifelong training also have PhD complementary activities and training, intended to develop their scientific culture, their international opennes, and to prepare their professional future. Still, their training courses are arranged to feet with the specificities of their situation. 

A thesis monitoring committee must stand each and evrey year, before re-registration. Among other things, it help to check whether the conditions of the lifelong training PhD are suitable, or deserve to be rearranged. 

Planning lifelong training arrangement procedure

Unlike initial training and lifelong training, registration for a validation of the experience acquired can only be done when the original scientific work constitutes a coherent whole, that what makes possible to consider a defense. Those works may have been carried out partly in a research unit of the doctoral school (for example, within the framework of a volunteer researcher agreement), or entirely outside the academic framework. 

  • PhD degree is awarded after a thesis defense or a presentation of the original scientific works .

To obtain a PhD degre by a validation of the experience acquired, the candidate must:

  • Write a thesis or a dissertation to assess the personal part of collective work . This dissertation or thesis will be evaluated by two rapporteurs and by a defense jury. Composition and expectations of the jury are the same as the ones for the initial training or the lifelong training PhD
  • As for the PhD students, the thesis or the dissertation will have to be legaly deposed and, if necessary published on the national portal www.theses.fr
  • An accompanying, chosen among the supervisors of the doctoral school, can be offered for the preparation of the thesis or the dissertation 
  • The work having been prepared before registration in the Validation of the experience acquired, the accompanying is not a thesis director. He does not ensure the scientific direction of the research work, but guides the candidate in the preparation of the dissertation or thesis.
  • He plays the role of thesis director for the defense (in particular to propose the defense)

Documents relating to the preparation of a validation of the experience acquired

  • Procedure  2016_05_25_procedure_de_doctorat_en_vae_0.pdf - ( 545.03 KB)
  • Admissibility file 2020_12_15_dossier_doctorat_en_vae.docx - ( 69.01 KB)
  • The vademecum "Validation of the experience acquired and PhD" vademecum_0.pdf - ( 1.76 MB)
  • The charges  tarifs-vae-complet.pdf - ( 46.2 KB)

Admission to a PhD Programme

A PhD application is a complete package that includes

  • A candidate with a research project
  • An original thesis topic
  • A thesis director
  • A team to host the research
  • A proposed funding or a proof that the material and financial conditions necessary for the successful completion of the doctoral thesis 

Candidates apply to the doctoral school that their research or team unit is attached to  via the Université Paris-Saclay application portal . Their PhD director must also be attached to that doctoral school. 

An application is considered to have been submitted only once it has been completed and finalised . To do this, candidates must : 

  • Have submitted all the documents requested by the doctoral school - A thesis subject - Information on the contions of the doctoral programme (thesis supervision, research unit) - CV - Transcripts - Other documents required by the doctoral school
  • Obtain a favourable opinion from the thesis director
  • Obtain a favourable opinion from the research or team unit director to wich the thesis directors responds

The application process is carried out via internet tool ADUM - an administrative tool for management of the PhD, from application to graduation.  Data recorded in ADUM are subjected to the RGPD regutions. 

Once the complete file has been submitted and the application has been finalised, it is examined by the doctoral school to which the applicant belongs. 

  • In case of a favorable opinion on the application file, the candidate then presents his/her doctoral project and previous research experience during an audition, in front of a admission committee organised by the doctoral scool. This hearing is required in both initial formation and lifelong training, and regardless the conditions of funding and the progress of the thesis preparation envisaged.
  • If the admissions committee gives a favourable opinion, the future PhD student may registered for the first time. 

Some college graduates only need to make a $50,000 salary for a decade for their degrees to be worth it

  • College degrees are under fire given the pain of student debt and political and economic troubles.
  • Some public university graduates only need to earn over $50,000 for a decade to make a return.
  • Graduates pay more to live in popular states but they can win due to better job markets there.

Insider Today

Crushing debt , political furor , and a brutal economic backdrop of historic inflation and higher borrowing costs have fueled fresh skepticism about the value of a college degree.

Yet, stumping up the cash for one may still be worth it financially if it results in significantly higher earnings. That's especially true for public universities that charge in-state tuition: their average alumnus only has to make $50,000 a year during the decade after graduation to make a positive return on their investment, The Wall Street Journal reported , citing new research from Strada Education Foundation.

Alternatively, graduates who can amass $500,000 before taxes over 10 years typically come out ahead and can repay their student loans. The finding holds for state-school graduates across sectors, The Journal said.

Related stories

"As long as you're above that $50,000, even in the most expensive states, you'll still have that positive return on investment," Nichole Torpey-Saboe, Strada's vice president of research, told the newspaper.

It costs more to live in states like New York and California, but recent graduates can still outearn their peers because of the superior job markets in those states, which often provide better access to internships and entry-level roles.

Strada found that around 80% of state-school graduates in those states scored a return on their college investment, compared to 60% in West Virginia and just over 50% in Idaho, The Journal said.

The nonprofit also revealed that community college doesn't provide as big an earnings bump, and private nonprofit universities tend to be more expensive at $8,000 a year and another $11,000 for room and board.

Taking out a student loan and getting a four-year degree can be daunting for many people, as student loans can haunt borrowers for decades, and college campuses have become a hotspot for protests and political clashes. The prices of food, fuel, and housing have all soared, and monthly payments on credit cards, cars, and mortgages have jumped.

But an affordable degree that bolsters someone's earnings potential and career prospects without breaking the bank can still pay off nicely.

Watch: Student loans are canceled for former students of Corinthian Colleges

phd student salary paris

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GSEHD Faculty and Students Published American Board of Vocational Experts Longitudinal Salary Survey

Dr. Scott Beveridge , along with Ph.D. candidate  Emily Decker  (counseling) and master's student  Lingyi Zhu  (Rehabilitation Counseling), recently published the, " American Board of Vocational Experts Longitudinal Salary Survey ," in the  Journal of Forensic Vocational Analysis . "With Rehabilitation Counseling, as with all professions, continuous review of salary distribution within a given field allows current and aspiring professionals to make informed decisions about pursuing or continuing within a given profession."

Per the abstract:

The following study builds upon prior research on counseling salary surveys completed by the American Counseling Association (ACA) and the Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification (CRCC) and adds to existing studies on the average annual salaries of the American Board of Vocational Experts (ABVE). This specific effort is to determine the current state of salary distribution within ABVE members. The survey instrument was based off of an original 2016 survey created to measure the same data from members of the International Association of Rehabilitation Professionals (IARP). The original survey was created by utilizing and building on the existing ACA and CRCC salary surveys in the counseling field and refined with the assistance of a Delphi panel of IARP members. The Delphi panel that created the survey instrument had an average of 31 years clinical experience in rehabilitation counseling at the time of creation. The participants from this longitudinal survey included 112 members of the American Board of Vocational Experts (ABVE) who completed the online survey to provide the data to examine the average annual salary, demographics, and disability identity and experience of members of the ABVE organization. This version of the survey was updated from the previous version to include questions about the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on earnings and professional duties. 

Blog Home Office in the media

Home Office in the media

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2024/05/23/reducing-net-migration-factsheet-december-2023/

Reducing Net Migration Factsheet – May 2024

The UK has experienced high levels of immigration in recent years.

Last year resulted in over 95,000 people immigrating to the UK through our various schemes for those seeking sanctuary. Recent rises are also the result of more students and care workers, including their dependants, coming to the UK.

The government  made a commitment to bring numbers down and, this year,  brought into a force a series of measures which would mean approximately 300,000 people who came to the UK last year would now not be able to - the largest ever reduction in legal migration.

The latest official estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) indicate that net migration in the year ending December 2023 stood at 685,000, compared with an updated estimate of 764,000 for the year ending December 2022. This latest estimate does not take into account any of the government’s policy reforms, which have since come into force throughout early 2024.

The latest show:

  • Visa applications across key routes affected by the policy changes (Skilled Worker, Health & Care, and Study visas) fell by 25% in the first four months of 2024, compared with the same period last year.
  • Student dependant visa applications are down 79% in the first four months of 2024, compared with the same period las year, following the restriction on most postgraduate students bringing dependants with them.
  • Health and Care dependant applications are down 58% in the first full month since restrictions were placed on care workers to bring dependants with them, from 15,100 in April 2023 to 6,400 in April 2024.

Reforms to Reduce Legal Migration

Policy reforms that the government has brought into force from the start of this year include:

  • 1 January – Restricted most overseas students from bringing family members to the UK.
  • 11 March – Restricted care workers and senior care workers from bringing dependants with them and require all care providers sponsoring migrants to register with the Care Quality Commission.
  • 4 April – Increased the general salary threshold for those arriving on Skilled Worker visas by 48% from £26,200 to £38,700.
  • 4 April – Replaced the Shortage Occupation List with a new Immigration Salary List and abolished the 20% going rate discount so that employers can no longer pay migrants less than UK workers in shortage occupations.
  • 11 April – Increased the minimum income requirement to sponsor someone for a family visa by 55% from £18,600 to £29,000. By early 2025, this will have increased two more times, rising to £38,700.
  • 23 May – Responded to the MAC’s rapid review of the Graduate route, unveiling action to regulate the recruitment of international students.

Student Visas and Graduate route

From courses starting on the 1 January, international students have been restricted from bringing family members, aside from those taking postgraduate research courses and those with government-funded scholarships.

The UK’s world-leading universities attract some of the best students from around the world to the UK, but we have seen a surge in the number of dependants accompanying students. The government has introduced policy reforms in an attempt to limit the number of student arrivals.. In the first four months of this year, dependant applications have fallen by 79% with more than 30,000 fewer applications compared to the same period last year.

The changes, first announced last May, have also stopped people from using the student visa as a route to work in the UK by removing the right for students to switch into work visa routes before they complete their studies.

In March, the government commissioned the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) to conduct a rapid review of the Graduate route. The government has accepted the MAC’s recommendations and has announced a series of measures to tackle abuse and crack down on any misuse of student visas. These include:

  • Mandating all higher education institutions who recruit international students to work within a framework for best practice, regularising the work of International Education Agents. The government will stamp out the business model of rogue agents who repeatedly encourage non-genuine students to apply for UK universities.
  • Tougher compliance standards for institutions recruiting students from overseas. Those who accept international students who then fail to pass our visa checks, enrol or complete their courses, could face losing their sponsor licence.
  • Raising financial maintenance requirements in line with domestic maintenance loans, so international students can prove their financial self-sufficiency.
  • Review English language assessments with the objective of standardising independent assessment. Students cannot learn if they do not understand their course materials.
  • Ensuring all overseas students are doing predominantly face-to-face courses with restrictions on remote delivery.

Is the government committed to its International Education Strategy and international students?

  • The government is not stopping international students from studying here but has taken action to address the rise in the number of dependants accompanying international students.
  • These measures are being taken to curb fraudulent activities, ensure only genuine students enter the visa system and hold institutions accountable for their recruitment process.
  • The UK Government’s International Education Strategy commits to hosting at least 600,000 international students in the UK per year by 2030 and the government has already met this ambition.

How is the government supporting universities?

  • The government continues to provide financial support of £6 billion per year to the higher education sector, plus more than £10 billion per year in tuition fee loans.
  • Universities are independent from government, and it is for them to decide on how best to manage their finances. Along with the Office for Students, the government will continue to monitor financial sustainability in the sector closely.

Why haven’t you closed the Graduate route?

  • The Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) found no substantive evidence of abuse within the Graduate route. It did warn about the potential for International Education Agents (IEAs) to generate compliance risks in the system. The government will keep the Graduate route in its current form, subject to further review.

When will new measures announced in May take effect?

  •   The government will implement these changes in due course. . The new sponsorship standards will be in place for the start of the new academic year in September, and the new financial requirements for international students will be announced this summer.

  Will these new measures affect universities in the devolved nations?

  • Home office sponsorship and compliance requirements apply to all universities who sponsor international students in the UK.

Care Worker Visas

From 11 March, care workers can no longer bring dependants with them.. In the first full month that this measure had been in force, applications for Health & Care dependant visas fell by 58%, from 15,100 in April 2023 to 6,400 in April 2024.

Care providers sponsoring migrant workers in England are also now required to register with the Care Quality Commission (CQC) – the industry regulator for Health and Social Care – in order to address concerns about non-compliance, worker exploitation and abuse within the sector of overseas workers.

Care Worker Dependants

Do these measures limit care workers?

  • The government is not stopping care workers coming here, just restricting their ability to bring dependants.

What is the government doing to recruit more domestic based care workers?

  • In January, the government introduced a series of measures including:
  • The launch of the Care Workforce Pathway: For the first time, there will be a national career structure for the adult social care workforce, covering the breadth and complexity of care.
  • Over £50 million of funding for a new level 2 Care Certificate qualification: This will support up to 37,000 individuals in direct adult social care roles to enrol on the new qualification between June 2024 and March 2025.
  • An investment of over £20 million for apprenticeships: Local authorities and adult social care providers will be able to use the money towards training and supervising hundreds of new social work and nurse apprentices.
  • Subsidised training places: An uplift to the Workforce Development Fund that will expand access to learning and development.
  • A new digital leadership qualification: This will help equip social care leaders and managers with the confidence and capability to lead the implementation and use of technology in the delivery of care.

Care Quality Commission Registration 

Have any care workers already here lost their jobs because their sponsor is not currently CQC registered?

  • Care providers who were sponsoring workers in exclusively non-regulated activities (and therefore not required to be registered with the CQC) before the rules changed will be able to continue to sponsor these workers, including for extensions to their visa on those terms.
  • Care providers will not be able to hire new workers for non-regulated activities.
  • Care workers who wish to work for another provider will therefore need to be offered a job with a provider which is regulated by the CQC.

How will this requirement address concerns of abuse and exploitation?

  • This will end the exploitation and abuse identified by the Migration Advisory Committee and National Care Association and ensure that those who come to the UK on this route genuinely provide care for those who need it.
  • Restricting route access to regulated employers contributes to ensuring non-care entities and agencies will not be able to access the route.
  • The government does not tolerate illegal activity in the labour market and any accusations of illegal employment practices are thoroughly looked into. Those found operating unlawfully may face prosecution and/or removal from the sponsorship register.
  • All sponsors must have an operating or trading presence in the UK and any organisation applying for a licence that has no operating or trading presence will be refused a licence. Similarly, any licence holder which ceases to operate or trade will have their licence revoked.
  • In March, in collaboration with Skills for Care, the government published the international recruitment toolkit for adult social care providers. This toolkit is a best practice guide to support providers to ethically recruit care workers and senior care workers from overseas.

Skilled Worker Visas and Immigration Salary List

From 4 April, the salary threshold for a Skilled Worker visa has risen by 48% to £38,700, ensuring businesses pay significantly more if they recruit from overseas.

The Shortage Occupation List has been replaced with a new Immigration Salary List and the 20% going-rate discount has been abolished. These measures will ensure employers can no longer pay migrants less than UK workers in shortage occupations.

Roles on the list are only included where they are skilled and in shortage., and if it is sensible to include them considering the efforts being made by sectors to invest in the resident workforce. Inclusion on the list must not serve to reduce pay and undermine the recruitment of British workers.

This follows the government introducing the £2.5 billion Back to Work Plan with the intention to support a further 1.1 million people who are long-term unemployed, long-term sick or disabled break down barriers to work.

  What specifically is the government doing to support British workers into work?

  • The government has introduced the £2.5 billion Back to Work Plan with the intention to support a further 1.1 million people who are long-term unemployed, long-term sick or disabled break down barriers to work.
  • In May, the government launched a nationwide campaign to increase the British workforce in conjunction with the Jobcentre Plus. The recruitment campaign encourages employers struggling with staffing shortages to use the services and solutions that local Jobcentres offer.
  • Led by the Department for Work and Pensions, a cross-government ministerial taskforce has been launched to develop new recruitment schemes in industries experiencing staffing shortages.

  Why was the salary threshold increased to 48%?

  • The increase is based on median UK salaries across eligible occupations.  Employers who are offering competitive pay will already be meeting the new threshold.
  • The government is not stopping businesses recruiting from overseas which is why salary discounts have been retained for PhD holders and new entrants to the labour market.

How is the new Immigration Salary List different to the Shortage Occupation List?

  • The new Immigration Salary List follows a Migration Advisory Committee recommendation to reform its predecessor which the government has accepted.
  • The 20% going-rate discount has been abolished so that employers can no longer pay migrants less than UK workers in shortage occupations.
  • The Migration Advisory Committee have reviewed which occupations should be included on the new list based on where there are shortages which cannot be filled through British workers in the short term, and which will retain a 20% general salary threshold discount.
  • Roles should only be included on the new list where they are skilled, where there is a shortage of suitable domestic workers available, and where it is sensible for immigration to be a part of the solution, at least in the short term, considering the efforts being made by sectors to invest in the resident workforce.

Family Visas

On 11 April, the minimum income required to sponsor someone coming to the UK on a family visa increased from £18,600 to £29,000 – an increase of more than 55%. By early 2025, this will have increased 2 more times, rising to £38,700 – to meet the new salary threshold for a Skilled Worker visa.

The government’s longstanding principle is that anyone bringing dependants to live in the UK must be able to financially support them. The minimum income requirement ensures that families are self-sufficient instead of relying on public funds, with the ability to integrate if they are to play a full part in British life.

How will it apply to those already here?

  • Those who already have a family visa within the five-year partner route, or who applied before the minimum income requirement was raised, will continue to have their applications assessed against the income requirement in place at the time of their initial application and will not be required to meet the increased threshold. This will also be the case for children seeking to join or accompany parents.
  • Anyone granted a fiancé visa before the minimum income threshold was raised will also be assessed against the income requirement in place at the time of their initial  application for a family visa within the five-year partner route.
  • Anyone applying for the first time after the new rules have taken effect will be required to meet the new requirement (or demonstrate exceptional circumstances).

Why did you pick £38,700?

  • The level is based on the median income for people in high skilled jobs and reflects the current salary threshold on the Skilled Worker visa route.

How can the applicant’s income be taken into account?

  • The sponsoring partner (i.e. the British person or UK settled person) and/or the applicant, only if the applicant is in the UK with permission to work, must have an income of £29,000 earned in the UK.
  • That means if a partner was already in the UK and working – for example because they were renewing their family visa or because they were already on a different kind of working visa – their income would be counted.

Will families be split up?

  • The family Immigration Rules contain a provision for exceptional circumstances where there would be unjustifiably harsh consequences for the applicant, their partner, a relevant child, or another family member if their application were to be refused. This would result in leave being granted on a ten year instead of a five-year route to settlement.
  • Further information can be found here - Family life and exceptional circumstances: caseworker guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Tags: legal migration , net migration , visas

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  1. Comparison of Salary of PhD Students in Europe

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  2. How are PhD students meant to survive on two-thirds of the minimum wage

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  3. Comparison of Salary of PhD Students in Europe

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  4. Phd Salary In France After Tax

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  5. What Is The Average Salary For A Phd Student

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  6. LIVING EXPENSES OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS in PARIS, FRANCE, PART

COMMENTS

  1. Salary: Phd Student in Paris, France 2024

    The estimated total pay for a PhD Student is €1,870 per month in the Paris, France area, with an average salary of €1,800 per month. These numbers represent the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The estimated additional pay is €70 per ...

  2. Salary: Phd Student in Paris, France 2024

    Average : €70 Range : €42 - €167. The average salary for PhD Student is €1,870 per month in the Paris, France. The average additional cash compensation for a PhD Student in the Paris, France is €70, with a range from €42 - €167. Salaries estimates are based on 524 salaries submitted anonymously to Glassdoor by PhD Student ...

  3. Salary: Phd Student in Paris, France 2024

    The average salary for a Phd Student is $1,800 per year in Paris, France. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

  4. The Employment Status of Phds at The University of Paris-saclay As of

    With more than 4,000 PhD students (4,084 registered for the 2020-2021 academic year), Université Paris-Saclay welcomes its PhD students in more than 400 laboratories, ... The median annual salary. With a PhD in hand, Université Paris-Saclay graduates in France have a median gross annual salary of €38,462, all sectors combined. ...

  5. Salary: PhD Student in Paris, France 2024

    PhD Student Salaries in Paris, France. The average salary for PhD Student is €4,680 per month in the Paris, France. The average additional cash compensation for a PhD Student in the Paris, France is €2,880, with a range from €2,880 - €2,880. Salaries estimates are based on 495 salaries submitted anonymously to Glassdoor by PhD Student ...

  6. Salary: PhD Student in Paris, France 2023

    The average salary for a PhD Student is $1,800 per year in Paris, France. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

  7. Salary: PhD Student in Paris, France 2023

    The average salary for a PhD Student is $1,791 per year in Paris, France. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

  8. [OFFICIAL]Phd Student salary in Paris

    Access to more detailed salary information about the role with our salary platform. The base salary for a Phd Student in Paris is 24,600 € Also known as: Doctoral Student, Doctoral Researcher.

  9. PhD, Postdoc, and Professor Salaries in France

    The salary scale for 2e classe starts at €3,102.15 and goes to €4,531.39 per month, while the scale for 1re classe is from €3,865.97 to €5,473.28 per month. The salary scale for the highest rank, classe exceptionnelle, is from €5,473.29 to €6,220.96 per month. France has a strong academic tradition and is committed to investing in ...

  10. Salary: Phd Student in Paris, France 2024

    The average salary for a Phd Student is £1,800 per year in Paris, France. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

  11. Benefits

    Financial benefits. PhD students will receive a salary of 1,684 €/month including health coverage and social benefits, which represents 1,422 €/month net salary. In addition, they will be granted by their host laboratory a bonus of 10,000 € which can be used to buy a computer and books and to attend conferences and summer schools.

  12. Salary: Phd Student in Paris, France 2024

    The estimated total pay for a Phd Student is €1,870 per month in the Paris area, with an average salary of €1,800 per month. These numbers represent the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The estimated additional pay is €70 per month.

  13. PhD student

    The PhD student community at a glance 950 PhD students 230 post-doctoral fellows Candidates By pooling the disciplinary expertise and research facilities of its five fou ... Pursuing a PhD at the Institut Polytechnique de Paris means benefitting from optimal support to innovate and expand the frontiers of knowledge. The internationally ...

  14. FAQ

    A doctoral fellowship is a work contract specifically for doctoral students. It lasts three years, and can be renewed for one additional year twice at most. The doctoral student's net salary is approximately 1,350 to 1,400 euros per month in 2017. It can be higher when you perform additional activities.

  15. PhD student

    Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne will apply the same tuition fee rates for the academic year 2024/2025 to French and foreign students regardless of whether they come from a European Union member state (voted by the Board of Governors on 26th October 2023). 1. Confirmation of your thesis topic. 2.

  16. Salary: PhD Student in Paris (France) 2024

    The average salary for a PhD Student is HK$1,780 per year in Paris (France). Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

  17. PhDs in France and their salary : r/france

    4th year PhD student in biology here. From what I know, PhD students in science must have a salary but I'm not sure about other fields. Your salary will depend on the fellowship that you have or your PI have. For example I have a fellowship from the french ministery of research ans indeed my gross salary is 1789€ (around 1400€ net salary).

  18. I am a PhD student living in Paris. My salary is 1850€/m net. How

    My PhD is in engineering and as a master student in this area you can earn easily around 3000. I'd say this is pretty standard in the tech field, not sure in humanities and such. As a "socialist" country salaries are very close, they are usually set by union agreements, and rarely go below 2000. On the other hand, they also rarely go above 4000.

  19. Prepare a PhD

    The PhD degree attests skills acquired through research in the framework of the doctoral training, which has a 3 years reference duration when the research work is carried out full-time, and a 3 to 6 years duration when the thesis is prepared part-time. The PhD degree can also be obtained by the validation of the acquired experience (VAE). The PhD degree - the highest internationnaly ...

  20. PhD in France (is it doable around Paris with regulated salary?)

    Got recently PhD offer from Paris-Saclay (lab near Orsay) and also one from Max Planck in Munich, Germany. The difference is vast 2000 euro gross / 1500 net in "Paris" (since it is suburb area, not Paris exactly) and around 3280 gross / 2050 net euros in Germany. For what the "brain" says, Germany seems a bit better, but I am really more ...

  21. Salary: Phd Student in France 2024

    The estimated total pay for a Phd Student is €1,883 per month in the France area, with an average salary of €1,815 per month. These numbers represent the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The estimated additional pay is €68 per month.

  22. Online MBA and Business Degree Programs

    In the U.S., the average starting salary for college graduates is around $59,000. However, according to the National Association of Colleges and Employers , computer science majors were projected to have the highest starting salaries for 2022, with an expected average over $75,000.

  23. Salary: Phd in Paris, France 2024

    The estimated salary for a PhD is €1,735 per month in the Paris, France area. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay ...

  24. Watch: Student loans are canceled for former students of Corinthian

    Some college graduates only need to make a $50,000 salary for a decade for their degrees to be worth it Theron Mohamed 2024-05-28T11:20:54Z

  25. How much salary a PhD make after graduation? : r/france

    The PhD wont really have an impact on your salary. Its all based on your experience and skills. Worst case scénario : out-of-school is 45k-50k, depending on the technicity of the job. You should look into Welcometothejungle, the site gathers many jobs for young phd and engineers. 1.

  26. GSEHD Faculty and Students Published American Board of Vocational

    Dr. Scott Beveridge, along with Ph.D. candidate Emily Decker (counseling) and master's student Lingyi Zhu (Rehabilitation Counseling), recently published the, "American Board of Vocational Experts Longitudinal Salary Survey," in the Journal of Forensic Vocational Analysis. "With Rehabilitation Counseling, as with all professions, continuous review of salary distribution within a given field ...

  27. Reducing Net Migration Factsheet

    4 April - Increased the general salary threshold for those arriving on Skilled Worker visas by 48% from £26,200 to £38,700. ... unveiling action to regulate the recruitment of international students. Student Visas and Graduate route. From courses starting on the 1 January, international students have been restricted from bringing family ...