stellaris assist research worth it

Day 1 Assisting Research

• Thread starter aroddo
• Start date Jun 19, 2021

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• Jun 20, 2021
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Glamazon said: - Delaying your guaranteed habitable settlement. Usually you should be able to have it touching down by 2203, if playing an origin with such habitables at least. Click to expand...

Glamazon said: - That additional information which will guide your play. (How much free space do I have? How close is the nearest genoicidal?) Click to expand...

Glamazon said: - If playing the proactive first contact, the influence you can get from sending science ships as far away as you can to get as many first contacts as possible to farm influence. I'm particularly fond of this on my recent voide dweller plays. Click to expand...

• Jun 21, 2021

aroddo said: all these arguments are countered if you just build one more ship. Click to expand...

needs more ponies

Badesumofu said: Except they aren't because you should be building more ships anyway and there far more important things for them to do than give you a trivial amount of science. By the time you're building more research buildings you can probably spare a science ship and scientist to assist research but not while there is useful exploring they could be doing. You will at some point reach a situation where the most useful thing one of your many science ships could be doing is assisting, but it's not likely to be until you have quite a few of them. Click to expand...

aroddo said: It takes 2 months to build another science ship (and about 2 energy extra upkeep). Click to expand...

Second Lieutenant

aroddo said: Right. The amount of bonus science is so trivial that the corresponding race trait is worth 2 points. Click to expand...

Lt. General

aroddo said: Anyway, a level 1 assist gives you a research advantage of 4 months for all categories. It takes 2 months to build another science ship (and about 2 energy extra upkeep). Click to expand...

Iosue Yu said: Anomalistic rewards scale with scientific income. So extra science gives extra rewards as well. Click to expand...

Setting a scientist to assist research in the first 5-10 years is a good idea, yes. But heavens no, not the first one! You need all the scouting you can get, the opportunity cost is huge. What if you find (and colonize) a habitable world a year or two earlier? Or discover a neighbor to get you influence to take over a strategically vital system before a neighbor? A very small amount of science is never worth this opportunity cost as well as energy, alloys and upkeep for an extra ship+scientist at the very beginning! Edit: also delays the needed energy to clear the blocker for extra 1 pop  

It really depends on the flow of the game. In my experience, the first colony will barely be delayed by this. If finding your guaranteed worlds fast is really that important, you skip surveying in favour of exploring anyway. That way, time ain't the issue. Anyway, maybe better use ship #2 for assist, unless the scientists have some really awesome survey perks, in which case you'd want to delay assisting even further.  

With the +1 planet sensor range in 3.0.3, my first expansion is almost always visible, and sometimes both are. Finding that first planet as fast as possible is no longer a matter of luck. Anyway, in regards to Assist Research, if we put that in combo with "Anomalies generate tons of Research points", then the strategy we get is: - Delay researching Anomalies until you have 2+ Research buildings and a ship doing Assist Research. That way the Anomaly multiplier will slingshot you higher than you'd otherwise achieve, and it's still early-game, and you can dedicate a Science Ship (or several) to Anomaly research and special projects while your initial Science Ships explore fast and far.  

Willy Waggler said: Anomaly research bonus scales with your empire research. As for assist research. I find it offensive and disgusting. Before, when number of leaders were capped, it was a strategic decision. Now you are compelled to send them to every single one of your planets\habitats\rings. And you have to keep tabs on them dying. It clutters your leader pool. It clutters your outline. It adds more forced micro. It should be removed or reworked to work like governors at the very least. And sectors should go away too. But developers are busy with making very important decisions like whether empire pop growth penalty should be 0.2 or 0.5 Click to expand...

• Jun 22, 2021

MathyM said: And it's the kind of stuff you have to open the System Map to do, so it's a major pain the butt. Click to expand...

aroddo said: It really depends on the flow of the game. In my experience, the first colony will barely be delayed by this. If finding your guaranteed worlds fast is really that important, you skip surveying in favour of exploring anyway. That way, time ain't the issue. Anyway, maybe better use ship #2 for assist, unless the scientists have some really awesome survey perks, in which case you'd want to delay assisting even further. Click to expand...

Simple way to evaluate efficiency of this is to compare 2 strategies - 1st science ship is set to assist research vs 2nd science ship is set to assist research. The first strategy will produce extra 0.4*3*2=2.4 science in the first 2 months. The second strategy (we assume that the player does the same choices with the 1st science ship as with the 2nd one in the first strategy) will allow to found a colony 2 months sooner and then to build a research lab and have researchers to man it 2 months sooner (in practice, the player might choose to build something else (e.g. unity or industrial) , allowing to build an extra lab on the homeworld. Either way that means that 4*3*2=24 extra science will be produced. Various traits and modifiers can alter this comparison a bit, but considering how big is the difference, they are not going to change the conclusion. Even more importantly the 2nd strategy will remain ahead on the population and resource curves while it catches up research before the 2nd (or even 1st) tech is researched.  

alexti said: Simple way to evaluate efficiency of this is to compare 2 strategies - 1st science ship is set to assist research vs 2nd science ship is set to assist research. Click to expand...

aroddo said: I say you can spare the 2 month delay at virtually any time. Exploration is important, but no one argued that you should stop exploring. The only consideration is if the extra cost and upkeep is worth it. Click to expand...

Badesumofu said: You aren't getting it. Any science ship you have assisting is one that isn't exploring. It's not relevant that you can build more because they can also be exploring. The real cost isn't the cost of the ship plus the scientist, it's the cost of what that ship and scientist could be doing if they weren't assisting. Opportunity cost. Click to expand...

Franton said: I beg to disagreee. My first 5+ science ships go to explore and survey, and I only bother sending one back to assist when I've found and secured suitable choke points, or when it turns out I sent one into a dead end and might as well put it to something immediately useful. Using either the first or second ship for assisting is equally bad in my eyes, as there are almost always 2 or more directions I need to explore towards and find out if I need to hurry to grab a choke point. P.S.: in a sense your calculation transitively supports my stance: just apply it towards the decision of using the second or third ship for assist, then on whether to use the third or fourth, ... you get the idea. Obviously there must be a break-even at some point, and that point is somwhere between the second ship and that time when there is no more suitable world to colonize, and no more important choke point to grab. But it depends on the layout of the map and the particular game. Click to expand...

• Jun 23, 2021

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The user interaction aspect utilizes a card shuffle approach rather than a traditional tech tree presentation, thereby introducing an element of semi-randomness into the system.

• 1 Research areas & fields
• 2.1 Example
• 2.2 Research alternatives
• 3.1 Example
• 4.1 Salvager trait and Scavengers civic
• 5.1 Stored research
• 6 Research speed
• 7 References

Research areas & fields [ edit | edit source ]

There are three different main research areas in-game, with each area corresponding with one of the research resources. Additionally, each research area has multiple subcategories, for a total of 13 such subcategories, and every tech belongs to one of these subcategories.

The areas and their subcategories are as follows:

The card system [ edit | edit source ]

Although the underlying technology system is based on the familiar tech tree structure, it does away with the traditional interaction/presentation in favor of the card shuffle approach. This injects a semi-random element into research, making it somewhat less predictable as well as less linear.

Whenever the player is prompted to initiate a research project, the game gives them a "hand of cards" consisting of a semi-random selection of technologies available for research, which are picked randomly from a hidden "deck of cards" consisting of all valid research options that can appear.

Technologies are divided into 6 tiers (T0 to T5) of advancement. Higher tier technologies require obtaining a certain number of technologies from the preceding tier in the same area of research (set at 6 for all tiers [1] ) before they become available as research alternatives.

Every time the player meets the requirements for a given technology to become obtainable, the technology in question is added into the main "card deck" and then has a chance of appearing in the "card hand" whenever the game draws a new hand for the player to pick from. There is one basic parameter affecting a tech's chances of appearing in a given card hand:

• Weight – A base value denoting the relative chance (out of all the valid options) of a particular technology to be drawn as an alternative. This may be further modified by an empire's composition (ethics, civics, etc.) and its current state (scientist's traits, past tech, etc.).

To further increase variation, a tech which appeared as an alternative in the previous card hand has its weight halved in the next draw.

In general, the more advanced a technology is, the lower its weight (and the higher its cost). Systematically important techs (e.g. terraforming) have a higher weight (typically between 150% and double normal) to help ensure empires get a chance to research them, whereas rare technologies have significantly lower weight (typically one-eighth normal without the matching expertise). Some factors increase the weight of rare techs:

Research can be automated, in which case the game picks the cheapest technology to research unless a rare technology is available for research.

Example [ edit | edit source ]

If these were the only three valid techs and only one tech were to be drawn, then each tech's chances of being drawn would be 26.5% , 13.3% , and 60.2% respectively (rounded to 1 decimal place). Realistically, there are usually many more valid picks and so the probability of picking any given tech is significantly lower than the figures given here.

Research alternatives [ edit | edit source ]

By default, each card hand drawn contains 3 research selections, or alternatives , which may be further increased by a variety of factors. Additionally, some research cards may be gained as permanent alternatives . They appear below the regular alternatives and are distinguished from them by a golden border surrounding the tech card's bezel. These alternatives are usually acquired (along with some partial progress) through post-battle debris analysis , from special projects , anomalies , archaeological site , situations , or other events . These options always appear as available options when drawing a new card hand and remain as such until fully researched.

Unlike a permanent alternative, there is no guarantee for the technology in question to appear in the next card hand drawn.

The number of research alternatives can be increased by the following:

Research progress [ edit | edit source ]

In general, research time can be summarized as the following formula:

Research progress is one of the key elements affecting the time it takes to discover new technologies. It is formulated as follows:

While it is possible for the monthly research progress to remain constant during the course of researching a certain technology, it is more than likely to fluctuate – for better or for worse – due to consequences of various actions (such as exploration, empire development, expansion, etc.). This, in turn, may increase or decrease the total research time of a given tech.

This setup generates the following monthly research progress:

Assuming no further changes impact the above setup, the total research time of the tech would be:

Note: Partial research can refer to debris analysis, previous research, event rewards, etc.

Debris [ edit | edit source ]

Debris has a chance of spawning when at least a ship from enemy fleet is destroyed. Debris can provide progress on most components, weapons, and defenses, but not ship upgrades. The following are examples of technologies that cannot be obtained from debris:

Each component can only spawn if the components are above the technology level of the attacker. Each component debris provides 10% progress on the technology, or 10% progress on the prerequisite technology if the prerequisite technology is unresearched. If no component can be spawned, debris gives a small amount of stored research from a relevant area instead.

Salvager trait and Scavengers civic [ edit | edit source ]

If Research & Salvage Debris is enabled and a scientist with the Salvager or Master Salvager trait is in the same system, there is an additional 5% combo bonus chance to salvage a ship.

The precise formula is as follows; the same chance is applied independently for each potential salvageable ship in the debris:

Additional salvage chance is the sum of additional bonuses, namely from the Master Scrapper council position. Salvager trait level applies multiple times if scientists with different levels are present, including a scientist with Master Salvager, which applies a 1.5 multiplier. Thus, having a level 2 Salvager, a level 3 Salvager, and a Master Salvager in the system would create a total 9 times multiplier to the base additive chance.

With additional salvage chance of 0:

Research output [ edit | edit source ]

Each research area employs the use of a different research resource.

Each of these individual resources has a base production of 10 research points a month. Most research output comes from pops working the appropriate jobs or research stations on space deposits.

Stored research [ edit | edit source ]

Whenever research output is not actively used, it accumulates as stored research . Stored research also includes research resources gained from other avenues, such as debris analysis, anomalies, events, etc.

This allows for a more "relaxed" approach research by eliminating the possible loss of research points due to forgetting to pick a research project while, at the same time, also simulating accelerated periods of research (as opposed to sudden "jumps") caused by newfound knowledge sources. The current storage levels can be seen by hovering over the appropriate resources.

Stored research effectively doubles research speed, as it is spent at a rate matching current output, as long as there is enough stored research.

Research speed [ edit | edit source ]

Research speed represents a given expertise in a particular research area or field leading to shortened research time of related technologies.

Research speed boosts the effective research production in the following manner:

The most immediate sources of research speed modifiers are the scientists in your council. As the applied bonus depends on a scientist's skill level and overall traits, it is recommended to assign newly recruited scientists to command a science ship . Scientists on exploration duty tend to gain experience faster and, if one is in luck, they may also gain a new trait beneficial to research while leveling up.

Research Speed is affected by the following permanent or renewable modifiers. Other temporary modifiers to research speed may be gained from events or anomalies.

References [ edit | edit source ]

• ↑ See Stellaris/common/technology/tier/00_tier.txt for details.
• ↑ See Stellaris/common/script_values/01_script_values_paragons.txt country_salvage_ships_from_debris_chance for formula details
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